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Canvas and suit construction

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by jefferyd, Oct 7, 2011.

  1. exchode

    exchode Member

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    @jeffreyd

    Thank you so much for posting this. To me, half-canvass construction is one of them hardest things to understand in this trade.

    Sorry for the OT. Do you have any recommendations for sources of good quality material used for canvassing you mentioned? I would love to supply these to my tailors when I have them make my garments.
     
  2. jefferyd

    jefferyd Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Most tailors will use different weights of canvas depending on the weight of the cloth so it's best to let your tailor do his own sourcing. Otherwise you could try B Black and Sons or Richard James Weldon.
     
  3. exchode

    exchode Member

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    Appreciate it, I will check those out. I also enjoyed peaking through your blog. I have a fascination with suit crafting, there is so much too it when you start digging - unbelievable. I have lots to learn :).
     
  4. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Can we talk about the bridal tape along the roll line? Is it really needed for soft constructed suits? On my heavier things you can feel where it is holding in the chest piece relative to the canvas, as in the canvas goes past the bridal tape and into the lapel. On my softer stuff it doesn't really seem to support the roll of the lapel and there is almost no difference in thickness between the chest and lapel.

    So, why does it need to be there? Can the chest piece just be either padstitched, or zigzagged right to the canvas leaving the edge free?
     
  5. jefferyd

    jefferyd Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    The principal function of the bridle tape is actually to draw the roll line close to the chest- it is pulled tight as it is basted, shrinking the roll line a bit to prevent gaping, so yes, it does need to be there, even in a completely unstructured garment.
     
  6. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    How about if there is a dart across the roll line under the collar?

    One thing I noticed on my latest commission was that there was no undercollar dart as on all my others there is. I also specified on the latest that I wanted a very protruding soft roll. Could this have something to do with that?
     
  7. jefferyd

    jefferyd Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    The dart does something similar, but it's usually only used on people who have very prominent chests, and the shaping is very localized. What do you mean by "soft protruding roll"?
     
  8. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    A roll that is not pressed very flat, has a more dramatic roll to it.
     
  9. jefferyd

    jefferyd Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    That kind of a dart would have nothing to do with that.
     
  10. stylemeup

    stylemeup Senior member

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    Thanks for this thread, jefferyd.

    I have read comments that the glue in fusibles is likely to degrade/stop working over time.

    Can you comment on how true or untrue that idea is?
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012
  11. rocketron

    rocketron New Member

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    Thanks. Excellent tutorial.
     
  12. barrelntrigger

    barrelntrigger Senior member

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    Hey jefferyd, I've been reading your blog for a while now. Good stuff. I was taught to do the pinch test near the second button for a full canvass test and near and/or under the lapel for a half canvass test. Any objections to that technique?
     
  13. puzzled

    puzzled Member

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    Thanks jeffreyd. I am 81 and considering getting a new suit. Can't afford a custom tailor at my age. Was considering bespoke tailors in the Seattle area because I now have such a large pot. Have a suspicion that the cost saving is partly from fabrications that ignore the fine linings you describe. Have you ever heard of fabrication techniques from these tailors? They all do a lot of hand waving about their quality, but no real evidence in their ads.
     
  14. a tailor

    a tailor Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    hello there puzzled

    i dont understand the use of your term "at my age". i have 3 years over you, and i am still a young whipper snapper.
    but i do appreciate someone using the term "CUSTOM TAILOR" its a good american term. wish more folks would use it.
    i think you meant to say made to measure. because bespoke is the english term for custom tailor.
    m2m as i like to call it is the bridge between ready to wear and custom.
    in our free speech society folks can say just about anything they wish. they can wave their hands about and call themselves
    the greatest tailors in the world. and in their own opinion they are right.
    the test is to try them and you decide how good they are.
     
  15. Brendon

    Brendon Senior member

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    Hi Jeffrey D
    I have enjoyed reading this thread. Disclosing my hand I am a Bespoke Tailor and Cutter living in New Zealand. I travel to Savile Row every year to the home of Bespoke tailoring to learn a little more every year. It is a fascinating trade and thre are days when I love it. It has endless possibilities. I have been trained over the years by an ex Savile Row tailor and cutter and even though I have a degree of knowledge, a man from Gieves and Hawkes stated in a magazine that even after 35 years he was still learning. Once you are taught the methods of Savile Row cutting it saddens me to look at the fashion suits that the young guys are wearing today. The short coats showing the workings of the trouser. The tight shoulders with lines of tightness going accross the back to tight forward shoulder points to name but a few horrors to the trained eye. Even though there are many firms on Savile Row and they all haver a different idea of what is the best way to cut and make, none resemble anything that I have seen on all of the tailor blogs. Enough wnining
    to help....Richard James Weldon ok for various canvas.
    The weight of a canvas I use now start at 165 g metre for the lightest and I would use this on a 9 oz cloth
    The 215 g camel hair canvas I use on a 10/11 oz cloth. Add to this the horse hair for the chest piece and then the woolen chest felt to this.
    I now buy all of my camel hair canvases and horse hair in Italy.
    If you cut a west end cut then you need these products to hold the chest out on the jacket.
    I think another post was about the gorge dart in the chest. Some firms put this in as standad.
    The Bridle tape is essential and is drawn in as for the mentioned reasons in previous posts but also remember this is a point of bias and would get sloppy without it. Fused suits will also have this.
    Lastly yes Custom tailor is a good American phrase, but as I so prefer the word BESPOKE simply because of the origins of the word that gives it its true meaning. Unfortunately the word is so bandied around here that you can now get a Bespoke home loan, dentist, interior designer, furniture maker etc etc
    Thank you for starting this discussion, I hope I can add well to this
    regards
    Brendon
     
  16. a tailor

    a tailor Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    hi Brendon
    yes its a shame the way the term bespoke is being misused. but there is no law that governs it.
    seeing as bespoke means to ask for in advance, one could call a m2m bespoke and be correct.
    after all its the customer that does the bespeaking. and the term does not describe the tailors work.
    when i was just beginning, i met a couple of english coat makers and i was in awe of their work.
    and bespoke was the magic word to me.
    here everything is called custom, except suits. and bespoke has taken over there.
    i am impatiently waiting for the bespoke pizzas.

    be well
    Alex
     
  17. TheDapperMan

    TheDapperMan Member

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  18. datagrammer

    datagrammer New Member

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    I am currently getting a custom suit made and on a fitting the other day, I took a picture of the insides. The cloth is a Loro Piana 130s and fused but it also has canvas at the chest and lapels. Would this mean that it is a half-canvas or a fused suit?

    [​IMG]
     
  19. VinnyMac

    VinnyMac Senior member

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    ...sounds like half-canvassed. Why didn't you request full-canvassing?
     
  20. datagrammer

    datagrammer New Member

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    I called and asked and he can do full canvas but it's $250 extra because of all the handwork and the cost of two-piece suit is only US$500 considering the cloth I am getting and the bemberg lining. He showed me some other ones he's made and its not too bad. I'm actually in Hong Kong getting it made.
     

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