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Can someone please explain khakis?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by linux_pro, Feb 10, 2005.

  1. Vintage Gent

    Vintage Gent Well-Known Member

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    I say this out of genuine surprise and not out of a desire to ratchet up the ad hominem factor here, but that's an awfully strange question for someone with your avatar to ask.
     
  2. Bradford

    Bradford Well-Known Member

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    LP -

    While I too am an admirer of the founding fathers, I did not mean to turn this into a political discussion. I just don't believe that the best examples of Franklin's greatness were found during his time in France, but rather in his other accomplishments.

    I'm glad that you can feel good about yourself while walking around the city in your wool pants, looking down on the street people (crackheads), dry cleaners (asians) and especially those small-town accountants driving minivans - unless of course you want to get a beer with them so you can feel superior.

    Honestly though, I hope that you are using the anonymity of the internet to play a role, because if this is truly the way you are in real life, I feel sorry for you.

    Bradford
     
  3. AlanC

    AlanC Well-Known Member

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    I understand Ben Franklin loved wearing khakis with his fur cap.... [​IMG]
     
  4. Alias

    Alias Well-Known Member

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    You see, people have tried to come up with some alternatives to the easy-maintenance khakis... but then you end up with polyester-blend Haggars.
     
  5. Phil

    Phil Well-Known Member

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    Horace-

    I own both the M1 and M2 Bills, and enjoy both. The M2 is less full through the legs, and the leg hole by the foot is less wide. They also have a shorter rise than the M1.

    The M1 are very high waisted, with very wide legs and have a bigger leg opening.

    I have come to like the M1s more over time.

    Always flat front though, they seem to look better on me.
     
  6. linux_pro

    linux_pro Well-Known Member

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    First, I was joking about accountants as drinking partners, and as a former geek, I have many accounting jokes, as I do geek jokes. It's funny that you take offense, every accountant I have worked with had his share of geek or management jokes, and we had great fun harassing each other with them. My sense of humor can be overly crass and dry at times, but come on, do you seriously believe that I actually literally hate accountants? That is ludicrous.

    Second, when did I ever put down Asians? I just don't understand where you come off with the whole anti-Asian thing. My description of the dry-cleaner was added for color, and is accurate for the region in which I live. Does it make me racist that I note that the majority of dry-cleaners in my area are Asian? Come on. Get a grip. Are you really so sensitive that any mention of race immediately incurs some form of racial discrimination or prejudice? If you are looking to paint me as a racist, you're going to have to look elsewhere, pal.

    About crackheads, I have no idea what you're trying to get at. Do I think I'm better than crackheads? What the hell is that even supposed to mean? And when did I ever say anything to imply that? The entire idea that you are implying is just totally one-dimensional and absurd. I'm not even sure where to begin with it. Mostly, I think "crackheads" are people with drug addiction, and generally mental health, issues so severe that they have become completely disenfranchised. How is anything related to that topic simple enough to summarize on an internet bulletin board? And how could my feelings about the problem, to which I have been exposed my entire life, possibly be condensed into such simple dialogue. You have no idea, and your glaring ignorance about the topic becomes quite evident in your attempt to oversimplify it, and glean some form of emotional context from my words that were just completely not present.

    As for the burbs and its minivans, the exact reasons I actually DO hate it (and the chinos everyone wears there, which to me have become the 'burban uniform) are the very things you are trying to paint on my character. Racial prejudice? Get a f**king clue pal, I happen to live in an urban area where ethnic diversity is more than a fashion statement, and I prefer it that way. However, take a drive through your typical burb, and you will get an upclose and personal look at 21st Century racial discrimination - where non-WASP whites, blacks, asians, etc are allowed to be WASP, but only that. Let me ask you something: How many synagogues are in your burb? How many mosques? How many ESL businessmen and entrepreneurs? Do you even know what ESL means? How many authentic Ethiopian (a personal fave), Somalian, Phakistani, Vietnamese, or Ukranian restaurants are within walking distance of your home? How many Bosnian theater groups, or independent Albanian film-maker/documentarians? How many of your neighbors have lived in America less than 10 years?

    The fact that I prefer the city, and you prefer the burbs, speaks for itself. Urban areas are a mecca of bustling micro-economies, full of ethnic diversity and rich with character. It is beautiful, I love it, it is my personal Babel, and I wouldn't trade it for anything. The cultural differences between myself and other citizens of my urban home is something I celebrate, that I LOVE, that gives me endless energy and adds infinitely to my own personal character, helping me define myself, who I am, what I like, and so on. The very diversity so present in urban environments allows us to discover our truly unique selves, and celebrate that uniqueness without fear of offending another.

    That was the entire point of my statement, however, I wouldn't expect you to understand because you are obviously a suburbanite. Only suburbanites become OFFENDED when you celebrate diversity. Only suburbanites are AFRAID of cultural uniqueness, and the beautiful freedom of being able to truly express oneself. That is why they choose to live in the burbs: where everyone drives the same cars, eats the same foods, wears the same clothes, goes to the same churches and worships the same god, feels the same emotions (or lack thereof, due to overusage of antidepressants), listens to the same music and has the same feelings about it, watches the same television shows and has the same conversations, I could go on ad infinitum. It disgusts me completely.

    And yes, I do see myself as better than these people, these WASP suburbanites (regardless of their skin color or nation of origin) as more alive and less afraid. And I do operate with that mindset, with a very strong hatred of suburbia and all that it stands for, as do the majority of urban people that I know. And if there is one thing that every urbanite I know just completely hates, it's when some racist WASP burbanite spouts off with their self-righteous offense whenever someone around them says anything regarding race, culture, politics, or any other subject which requires one to take a stand, or makes note of the fact, in some trivial way, that we are all different and unique. Because that is anathema to burbanites. And that is why they are anathema to urban culture, which is all about the beauty of being "unique" and the celebration of that.
     
  7. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Well-Known Member

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    I'm of two minds about this. I've spent most of my life living in an almost equal split between cities and suburbs. I've enjoyed both, and currently live in a fairly suburban area (Newport Beach, CA) while I've lived in such cities as Boston, New York, LA (if it counts), Taipei, and Vienna.

    I have enjoyed my time in both but have chosen the suburbs lately because of the quality of life, safety, and availability of resources... I will elaborate more a bit later.
     
  8. Bergdorf Goodwill

    Bergdorf Goodwill Well-Known Member

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  9. Drinkwaters

    Drinkwaters Well-Known Member

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    It seem as though linux_pro has had a terrible experience in burbia. Were you dragged through down town burbia by the feet, behind some great big SUV and had khaki juice dripped all over you. I think you ought to think hard about type-casting others and respect that the choice of ones surroundings is personal choice. As I stated before " Hate is a powerful word" and you have exemplified exactly my point. Maybe you should try dislike in your vocabulary, it's more honorable. [​IMG]
     
  10. Ambulance Chaser

    Ambulance Chaser Well-Known Member

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    LP,

    You seem like a good guy, and I share your preference of the city over the suburbs.  That said, your description of your dry cleaner as a "shifty-looking asian" was an unfortunate ethnic stereotype akin to "greasy italian," "smelly mexican" or "lazy black."  I take you at your word that you meant no offense, but I can't fault Bradford for reacting the way he did.

    Now let's get back to discussing khakis.
     
  11. Bradford

    Bradford Well-Known Member

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    Obviously I do not know you other than what you have written here, but let me put it bluntly:

    "I think you are a judgmental prick who earns too much money and has too little class."

    Clear enough?

    As for me - the funny thing is, I live in the heart of the 5th largest city in the country (Phoenix) while you are in Seattle, a town of less than 600,000 people ranked #23 in population.

    I am not offended by people who actually celebrate diversity. However, in your case, all you have done since coming on this board is insult people who don't earn as much money as you; don't live in the city; and don't dress in clothing that meets your approval. Now - which of us is narrowminded?

    Personally, I have friends of all ethnicities, religious backgrounds and sexual orientations who live everywhere from Manhattan's upper-east-side to small farm towns in the Midwest and rank anywhere in earnings from the top of the Forbes 400 to minimum wage.

    In your case, I would recommend that you gain some life experience and acquire some humility before you continue spouting your aspersions and stereotypes about people who are different than you.

    Bradford

    Oh and there is a synagogue located directly across the street from my house.
     
  12. linux_pro

    linux_pro Well-Known Member

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    I must apologize guys, I have respect for all on this board, and all people in general. My rant was a little out of line. The shifty asian thing was improperly put - what I meant was a shifty looking guy at the dry cleaners only charging me 5 bucks to clean a shirt or jacket. It makes me wonder how quality the cleaning is. I mean, how are they handling my clothes? Is it even possible to do a good job for that little money? It makes me endlessly nervous to hand some guy a $1000+ cashmere jacket and think that it's just being treated with super harsh chemicals and whipped out as quick as possible with absolute disregard for overall damage to the garment. I rather meant that as a question to the board. As in, does anyone else feel this way or have had experiences to denote the quality of the local quicky dry-cleaner type places. Is it possible to get good dry cleaning where garments are handled with special care and attention?

    Drizz - I don't know that I consider Newport Beach really a suburb. The entire city of LA could be considered a big sprawling suburb in ways, the core downtown area is smaller than the downtown area in Seattle - however, skyscrapers are scattered all over, and the whole city itself in every way kind of defies simple description. From Irvine all the way to the Grapevines it just kinda stretches all over, and I've always considered that entire area to be "LA" metro pretty much. Now, once you get over the grapevines, or south of Irvine, I consider that area the suburbs, however inaccurate that might be.
     
  13. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Well-Known Member

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    linux,

    I agree with that characterization in saying that living here in Newport Beach, is not particularly different than living in West LA. However, I would say it was quite a bit different than living in west Boston and Cambridge, the Upper East Side of NYC, or the 19th district in Vienna.

    I've enjoyed living in all of these places immensely, and they're all quite different. Boston is one of my favorite cities, vibrant (although things do close fairly early here) fairly small and accessible, with some reminders of European culture, and a bit slower paced than, say NYC, which is IMO a fun city to live in, but not where I'd see myself settling down. Obviously, many other people disagree. Vienna seems to be a city that is in many ways living in the past, while desperately trying to modernize, and LA is an interesting mix of cultures...

    I chose Orange County as a place to live for a number of reasons, perfect climate, easy access to shops and cultural events, 5 minutes from the beach yet an hour from ski slopes, Many people consider Irvine and neighboring areas to be cookie-cutter suburban hell, but I personally don't mind this area at all.
     
  14. linux_pro

    linux_pro Well-Known Member

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    Bradford - I think my payrate is a highly inappropriate subject for personal conversation. My employers negotiate my rate of pay with me, and that is based on my return, as with any investment. As for people on internet forums and how they perceive my income, that is so abstract and strange, it just really has no relevance at all to my life. As I said earlier, it is crass to discuss salary in personal conversation. If I had this "spat" with you in person, I would have apologized and hopefully it would be done. So let's be done now, yes? I believe the gentlemanly manner of ending an argument would be a friendly handshake, so would you accept a virtual handshake? [​IMG] To anyone else who is reading this, and might have been offended by my posts, I do heartily apologize. I realize I was being a little manic and getting far too worked up about something silly. I attempted, unsuccessfully, to make it humorous. My apologies. And it is truly embarassing to think I have just had my first argument on the internet, now I am truly a loser. It will not happen again. I think there is something about the anonymity of the internet that causes one to forgo all proper curteousies and let loose the demons within. Ha ha ha ha ha. I am not that vitriolic a person at all in real life, I am actually quite a warm, friendly person, it's something I take pride in, I think this forum has triggered some strange release of a deep-seated resentment of which I was previously unaware. As I said, I hope my apologies will be accepted and you have my word I will act in a more civil manner in the future.
     
  15. Bradford

    Bradford Well-Known Member

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    LP -

    A virtual handshake it is.

    I will accept the fact that your posts are not reflective of your true personality and I certainly understand that humor and satire are tough to convey via these posts.

    I agree that with the anonymity of the internet it is easy to forget our manners and I hope that this is not something that will happen again.

    My apologies if my comments were out of line.

    Bradford
     
  16. esquire.

    esquire. Well-Known Member

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    LP-

    At least, you had the cojones to admit when you're wrong. We have some people here who still won't admit when they're obviously wrong, i.e. that price is a component of quality.

    If you still want to know more about the popularity of khaki pants, you should look up an article by Malcom Gladwell where he wrote an article about this phenomenon.

    Dz,
    Some historians argue that Alexander Hamilton didn't intend to kill or shoot at Aaron Burr, and shot his pistol into the air. However, that curr, Burr, still fired and killed Hamilton.
     
  17. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Well-Known Member

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    That brings up an interesting point, they were dueling with only single shot pistols right?

    If they both missed, did they just consider the duel over? or do it again?

    What if someone busted out a John Woo dive at 10 paces, then aimed and shot at their leisure after the other missed?
     
  18. linux_pro

    linux_pro Well-Known Member

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    I doubt that Hamilton would have purposely fired into the air. That was strictly prohibited by the Codes of Dueling, and Hamilton was infatuated with both his own personal honor and the art of the duel. Generally, if both parties missed their shot, they would reload and start over, according to the seriousness of the insult which led to the duel. It was amazingly complex, and I'd suggest reading the Code Duello (found here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/duel/sf...fdueling.html) for more specific information, although Americans used a much less complex set of rules generally. As an Irishman myself, I am proud to note that Ireland was the only nation in which strict adherence was given to the Code Duello - what gentlemen. Heh heh. If you were to make any move to dodge the fire of your opponent (especially John Woo style, although it is hilarious to imagine it), and then take aim and kill the man, you would be tried for murder, and then hanged at a public gallows. The rules regarding proper conduct in a duel were extremely strict, even in America were they could change slightly from duel to duel, according to the fancy of the judge. To dodge opponent fire, to take a concentrated aim, or to practice your markmanship up to two months before the duel (although the exact period of time is rather arbitrary and varied from case to case) were all considered serious violations of gentlemanly protocol and would result in your being tried and convicted of murder, which invariably meant the death sentence. When you challenged someone to a duel, your opponent had the right to choose the weapon - sword or pistol. If either party was completely lacking in swordsmanship, the judge would allow an overruling of the sword preference and the duel would default to pistols. This made it rather dangerous to regularly practice your marksmanship, since if you had just been target shooting 3 days before, you have just signed your own death certificate whether you win or lose. This made pistols a fairly uncommon choice for dueling, even at the peak of dueling's popularity (around 1760-1780), contrary to common folklore. Also, many pistol duels ended with one party being seriously maimed and dying days later of complications, such as serious infection of the wound. That little nastiness tarnished the reputation of the pistol as it was increasing in popularity in the late 18th Century, and it became viewed as a rather barbaric method of dueling, which rather quickly led to the outright ban on dueling in every country. Once again, I'd highly suggest reading the Code Duello if you are interested in the rules of duelling. You would be surprised how complex and extremely intricate the system actually was. Any deviation, however slight, from that Code (even before its inception in 1777) would have resulted in your public execution.
     
  19. linux_pro

    linux_pro Well-Known Member

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    I might, with a bit of embarassment, note here that as a young lad in my early teenage years (12-14), I used to partake in reenactments of 18th Century dueling, and also practiced fencing. What a nerd.. Hey, at least I've never been in the SCA or played Magic the Gathering. We all need some eccentric aspect to our character, right?
     
  20. nightowl6261a

    nightowl6261a Well-Known Member

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    Can we fight the Civil War again please, I think the outcome would be different today...besides, it seems everyone here is hand-shaking and it really is disturbing, especially after the abysmal comments made like the following:

    linux_pro, damn man, you must be the most zeroed in mofo in the world for such a young lad. The cultural diversity swaying within you will definitely push you beyond the limits of humanity. One day I predict you will save the urban world from suburbanites like myself, you may even win a peace prize or some other established humanitarian award. I almost am scared of myself after reading your psycho analysis of people like me and the uniqueness of the less than diverse society I live in.

    What I do believe is you should not generalize suburban America as one giant WASP community, rather as a community of people living an American dream, peacefulness, calmness and general friendly interaction, which is hard to accomplish in the fast paced, never stop and smell the roses attitude in most urban big cities. Where crime is on the increase, paranoia from the street is ever prevalent, and although diversity exists, it seems rather most people in the city are more caught up in being themselves rather than a community of well disciplined neighbors, seeking to raise their children with good wholesome values, helpful to the friend in need, and generally being Americans rather than a race or religious cult.

    Take a drive through suburbia-Atlanta for example, and one will notice the "Mosques", the "Synagogues", the diverse cultures existing as one giant group, interacting daily as a people, not a sub-culture separate from the surroundings. My neighbors are black, Asian, European, southern, northern, Hispanic, and yet, we all live as friends and colleagues, not separate diverse groups looking to be different, but looking to be happy and create an edenistic atmosphere for the family environment.

    Are we afraid of people like you, on the contrary, we embrace the immaturity of young people like you, knowing that as you age and become a man, you will one day slip into the same suburban attitude that drove us to seek solace from the city. A peaceful existence within one's heart and soul to provide a safe and secure place to raise our children and enjoy friends without the fear of the crime and lonely existence of a fast paced, never ending struggle to be different from the surroundings, where the only reason for having a daily routine is to be different to be noticed. As we, the suburbanites, age and enter an educated life's maturity, we realize being different and needing a self righteous difference becomes less important to who we are, as to what we seek in tranquility.

    And, one last detail, I promise you this, of the suburban living people in this particular board, SF, you definitely are not better than or even close to being as good. One will find that hatred is a strong word, and with issues as developed as that,
    I am sure that we can find someone here with the professionalism that can help you through this tough and labored time in your life to help you grow and reach into your inner-self to realize there are far worse things in life to hold a dissatisfaction for.
     

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