C&J Connaught : the french anatomists are back

[paul sernine]

http://www.piedencap.net/spip.php?article96

 

[Geoff Gander]

Very interesting!

So, on the whole the Connaught (and by extension C&J benchgrades) are well-constructed, but the use of various components that are more economical (like the Italian shank - if that's the right name for it) makes it lose some points. Fair enough, I suppose, if your assumption is that you're buying a 100% English-made shoe (and paying accordingly).

I suppose it depends on the buyer's expectations. From my standpoint, I want to buy an attractive shoe that will last a long time. Even with this in-depth review, it's quite clear that C&J is still pretty good value for money - especially if a pair can be acquired on sale or as seconds. If EG prices are what one would pay for a "real English shoe", then I suppose current C&J prices are acceptable; although I would, as stated above, try to avoid paying full price as a matter of principle (I like the challenge).

They are certainly a damned sight better than most of what's available locally! Thanks for sharing this!

Geoff

 

[Sator]

The conclusion was interesting:


« MitigÃ

e » pourrait être le qualificatif adaptÃ

. A de nombreuses reprises le soulier nous a dÃ

montrÃ

le très grand professionnalisme des artisans-ouvriers qui Å“uvrent dans cette auguste maison. L'assemblage et les finitions sont tout à fait remarquables. Mais les Ã

lÃ

ments structurants du soulier, bout dur et contreforts, le bloc première italien, sont sans aucun doute des Ã

lÃ

ments tout à fait pÃ

joratifs pour une maison comme Crokett & Jones. Il n'est pas normal qu'elle propose des souliers de ce prix, fabriquÃ

s officiellement à Northampton, en utilisant ces procÃ

dÃ

s et des matÃ

riaux aussi « Ã

conomiques ». En temps qu'amateur d'artisanat il nous a aussi semblÃ

dommageable de demander à des ouvriers spÃ

cialisÃ

s d'appliquer leurs grandes compÃ

tences dans le travail du cuir à des matÃ

riaux aussi pauvres.

Il faut espÃ

rer que l'insistance des passionnÃ

s pousse les grandes maisons à abandonner ces types de fabrications.

It merely confirms my suspicion that C&Js are an exercise in mediocrity. I still find the biggest problem with C&Js is the quality of their leathers, which are often marginally inferior to Allen Edmonds. I have gone off C&J completely and will doubtless never buy another pair again. The French lasts (D Gomez) look pimpish and inelegant to boot: "Escargot Anglais".

 

[Golf_Nerd]

Originally Posted by Geoff Gander

Very interesting! ... Thanks for sharing this!

Geoff

+1

 

[grimslade]

Originally Posted by Sator

The conclusion was interesting:

It merely confirms my suspicion that C&Js are an exercise in mediocrity. I still find the biggest problem with C&Js is the quality of their leathers, which are often marginally inferior to Allen Edmonds. I have gone off C&J completely and will doubtless never buy another pair again. The French lasts (D Gomez) look pimpish and inelegant to boot: "Escargot Anglais".

I suppose you can read into it what you will. Overall, their verdict was that the workmanship and leather were unimpeachable. They didn't like the Italian ready-made shank, but then, AE doesn't use shanks, so...

I wear both makers' shoes, and don't consider myself a partisan of either. I certainly didn't read anything there that led me to believe that C&Js are not pretty much exactly what you'd expect to get from a mid-range English shoemaker. What I'd be really curious about would be a comparison between the Connaught, a benchgrade model, with a handgrade.

 

[Holdfast]

My French is a trifle rusty, but I found the review to be mostly positive and reassuring regards C&J benchgrade quality. The complaints about the bought-in parts are understandable in the context of their high standards, but provided the ready-made pieces are not of inferior quality or detract from the overall durability of the shoe, I have no particular "in principle" objection to their use.

I note Sator's issue with the leather quality on benchgrades and sometimes note similar issues with the RL benchgrade-equivalent C&J shoes I see (it's not a consistent problem, but sometimes I notice they do feel less than I'd want). I don't actually have any benchgrades, only a couple of handgrades, but if the only problem they found with benchgrades was the bought-in parts, I'm even more reassured my handgrades will last a long time. I certainly have no complaints about their styling, leather or fit.

 

[Roger]

An interesting post, if for nothing other than the pictures.

Geoff Gander, you do, of course, know of P Lal. There, you can buy this shoe for $336 US. You would be hard pressed to do any better price-wise. You might scout eBay for a few months and get lucky and find your size and color preference for a little less--like $285 or so from some seller like "Sausages," but with the greater shipping costs, you'll end up, at best, only $20-$25 ahead of P Lal. For $336, you are getting a lot of shoe. BTW, what exactly is an "Italian shank," and in what ways is it inferior?

Sator, your comments left me bemused. From my own experience over many years of owning perhaps 10 pairs of A-Es and as many C&Js (both regular line and Handgrade), your comments about leather quality are completely and utterly at odds with my own observations (and I'm including all of the regular line--or "benchgrade"--models in this). I'd be interested in hearing from others who've had enough experience (through owning and seeing the quality out of the box, the effects from polishing, ability to hold a shine, wear resistance, and aging of the leather) with both brands to comment on this aspect of quality. Add to this the fact that (a) C&Js have breast welting vs the clunky 360-degree welting of A-Es, thus making them far more elegant and trim, (b) C&J lasts are infinitely more elegant and distinctly-shaped, as opposed to the rather blobby, imprecise A-E lasts, and (c) C&J soles (I'm guessing Rendenbach) are superior to those on A-Es (at least recently), and C&J's superiority (in my opinion) in all aspects of shoe quality is apparent. My own experience with the C&J Handgrade line (four pairs) is that, all things considered (including performance and appearance after months of wear), they fall only slightly short of my EGs (eight pairs), and run about .45 the price of the latter.

I'm also surprised to hear your criticisms of the lasts developed for C&J by Dimitri Gomez, like the 337, for example. These seem to be the very lasts that most people like best in C&J shoes. Pretty hard to see the 337 as either "pimpish" or "inelegant," and I think (although I could be wrong) that almost everyone else would agree. Perhaps you also see some of the more stylish EG lasts (similar in many ways to Dimitri Gomez's)--like the 82 or 888--as "pimpish"!

 

[grimslade]

I'm really not a leather connoisseur, Roger, but I have found my AEs on the whole to have held up very well compared to my C&Js. I'd also say that I've found considerable shoe-to-shoe variation with almost every maker I've tried. But overall, AE leather is nothing to complain about. Then again, neither has C&J leather been in my experience. And in fact my Connaughts have held up to tons of abuse very well. If I had a point of complaint about them, it has been the insole or the cork filler--one or the other has developed a lump in one shoe, and it's driving me nuts.

 

[sebastophoros]

my technical english is a bit poor, but here's my summarised translation : As the tested shoe is a sub, the team did not mention the stains and irregularities of the upper calf. First part : the sole and the heel The heel was made of real layers of leather, and not a block of synthetic material like many shoes of the previous autopsies. Layers are put together with nails, and fixed to the sole with pegs. The outsole is made of a good leather and sewn with a thick thread. The welt is excellent : thick and engraved, in order to protect the stitching. The insole and the feather are a pre-made block bought at bartoli's. The filling is made of a cork paste, and not of cork sheets. A huge wooden shank strengthens the waist. The two consulted cobblers could not agree on the quality of this split leather insole. Second part : counters and toe puff The toe puff is made of thermo-melded fabric. The cobblers could not agree on the material of the counters, but they are obviously not made of full grain leather. Autopsy team was much disappointed to find so poor materials. Third part : upper and lining. The leather is globally good, and really well crafted: the stretching of the leather on the last has been carefully done. The lining is a beautiful natural leather. Between upper and lining a fabric strengthens the shoe : it prevents the leather deformations. This fabric is a bit thicker on the toes. Conclusion. The craftsmanship is excellent, but the key elements for the structure of the shoe are made of poor materials. The team considers it as a waste for the workmen of Northampton.

 

[edmorel]

Originally Posted by Sator

The conclusion was interesting:


It merely confirms my suspicion that C&Js are an exercise in mediocrity. I still find the biggest problem with C&Js is the quality of their leathers, which are often marginally inferior to Allen Edmonds. I have gone off C&J completely and will doubtless never buy another pair again. The French lasts (D Gomez) look pimpish and inelegant to boot: "Escargot Anglais".


It's official, you're insane.

 

[Tarmac]

The only thing which I find odd is "cork paste", I mean, is there really such a thing? Is it better than using sheets of cork?

I would fully expect plastic internal heel counters and plastic toe caps. I think new technologies should just be adopted in appropriate situations, this being one. Plastic is a far better material to use to stabilize your heel.

Also it clearly states that the cobblers could not agree on whether the outsourced leather sole was in fact inferior (at least I think this is what they are referring to). They just probably found it odd that it was outsourced.

 

[Vintage Gent]

Originally Posted by Sator

I still find the biggest problem with C&Js is the quality of their leathers, which are often marginally inferior to Allen Edmonds.

That's roughly my impression, as well. I'm no leather expert, but my Grenson Masterpiece shoes/boots, for example, are at least a notch above my C&Js in leather quality.

 

[Geoff Gander]

Originally Posted by Roger

Geoff Gander, you do, of course, know of P Lal. There, you can buy this shoe for $336 US. You would be hard pressed to do any better price-wise. You might scout eBay for a few months and get lucky and find your size and color preference for a little less--like $285 or so from some seller like "Sausages," but with the greater shipping costs, you'll end up, at best, only $20-$25 ahead of P Lal.

You're quite right. I'm actually planning to buy the Connaught as my second black oxford shoe (or an EG - still haven't made up my mind, but if not an EG then definitely the Connaught), so naturally I was very interested when this article appeared. I've researched the prices for PLAL and Pediwear, and IIRC I was looking at paying about $400-$425 or so for the Connaughts if I bought from Shyam. If the price is closer to $336 (is that really what you paid??) then it's a no brainer and I'll be contacting Shyam straight away.

I lucked out when I bought a pair of C&J Canterburys off EBay (for about $300), but I agree that the chances of doing so regularly are slim. Still, I troll the Bay every week, out of curiosity if nothing else.

Geoff

 

[Golgotha]

Good evening (morning) everyone, I just joined in following the appearence of this thread. I'm one of the more active members of the forum Depiedencap and a fellow to the autopsy team which recently dis-membered this CJ shoe. We found it a very interesting and revealing experience. As it was commented on the dpec forum earlier today, we are of the opinion that while the craftsmanship is excellent, some of the underlying materials are unworthy of a traditional english shoe. Synthetic materials that yet may last for some ten years, are still much less noble in my nevrotic view. We will be doing more in the near future, starting off with a new subscription for a CJ Handgrade for comparaison sakes. We hope to move up later to Lobb and Green and have a more and more in depth knowledge of shoe construction and an objective view of the shoe market. By the way, do all feel free to subscribe

to what we like to consider shoe insurance: see inside before you wear it outside! have enjoyed reading some of your threads in the past, looking forward to popping in from time to time. regards, golgot

 

[grimslade]

Thanks, Golgotha! Very glad to have you here. Please keep us posted.