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Buying and Selling on eBay: Tips, Tricks, Problems & Questions

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by HansderHund, Jul 27, 2012.

  1. stevent

    stevent Senior member

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    Have a chargeback issue with a digital item code I sold. Buyer is claiming unauthorized activity and I've accepted I'll be out the money on the transaction. Looking through PayPal I have the shipping address options and then: "I refunded the payment for this transaction." or "I will accept liability for this transaction."

    Does anyone know if I will be charged the chargeback fee if I accept liability? I don't see an option to refund the buyer.
     
  2. Fueco

    Fueco Senior member

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    Another one for your block lists:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Dirt

    Dirt Senior member

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    You gonna fight that, Fueco? For fuck sake, it says beige in the title.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Fueco

    Fueco Senior member

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    This ones filed under "I'll fight this when the return is delivered."
     
  5. Dirt

    Dirt Senior member

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    Interesting tactic. So who eats the return shipping if you win after it's delivered, buyer or eBay?
     
  6. Fueco

    Fueco Senior member

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    I don't have a choice but to accept the return since I offer returns. When I have the package in hand, I call EBay and have them manually close the return and refund dude manually through PayPal.
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. drlivingston

    drlivingston Senior member

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    The guy knows how to work the system. Unfortunately, his cleverness is easily surpassed by his douchebaggitude. He is, therefore, blocked.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    2 people like this.
  8. AIC99

    AIC99 Senior member

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    He talked like he didn't do anything wrong :))
     
  9. HansderHund

    HansderHund Senior member

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    A Duschdüse is actually the thing on the shower where the water comes out. Arschloch works pretty well in this case :happy: I'm not defending this guy whatsoever, but he may be unaware that the US doesn't have the same laws regarding returns as the EU. New regulations were put into place that are pretty terrible for the retailer and brilliant for the consumer. In the EU: - All distance sellers (licensed/professional businesses) must offer a 14 "cooling off" return policy. The consumer has the right to see/hold/try on a product without an obligation to keep it in order to give the same "rights" as in a physical store. - If an item is returned (must be with tags/unused, though there's little to no recourse for the retailer to enforce this), the retailer has to refund them within 7 or 14 (can't remember) days. - The full purchase price AND the original shipping must be returned to customers inside the EU. - Retailers are allowed to have the consumer pay return shipping charges, but this must be explicitly stated in the offer. If not, retailers are on the hook for it and the return period is extended, I believe. - Retailers are not allowed to withhold a restocking fee. - All products (new/used) are guaranteed by the retailer for 2 years. Unfortunately, these include ebay, as they specifically mention "online auction sites." I see retailers online, outside of ebay, that claim that they will not refund original shipping charges. I'm not sure how widespread the knowledge is among the public, but I'm sure their policies wouldn't stand up to a court. There are exceptions, but they're few and far between, for example tickets for airfare. It's unbelievably expensive and I've seen rates of return shoot up over the last couple of years. It's basically: sell an item for €X amount with free shipping OR + €Y shipping. Ship item to Spain. Accept the return, refund €X + Y and your relisted item just became more expensive for you.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
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  10. Fueco

    Fueco Senior member

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    That is freakin' ridiculous. But it's also not the responsibilities of sellers in the US to abide by those EU laws. Obviously, the EU is not intending to force those laws on foreign sellers.

    And thanks for the new term... I studied German for three years in school, but don't remember much more than the basics!
     
  11. HansderHund

    HansderHund Senior member

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    My pleasure. Of course I wouldn't expect anyone in their right mind to expect them, but maybe he just assumed it was a "normal" thing, who knows. EU sellers are not obligated to return original shipping to customers outside of the EU either.

    If you ask me, before they did something like this, they should have standard postal rates throughout the EU to level the playing field. 95% of my stuff goes outside of Austria which is far more expensive to ship. Beyond that, it's cheaper for Germans to send the exact same package back to me than it was for me to send it via the same DHL service.

    Before I offered Germans free shipping, I would get weekly suggestions that my shipping prices were too high and they'd quote the price from the German Post, which is OBVIOUSLY not available to me considering I'm in Austria, a sovereign nation. :confused:
     
  12. ThomGault

    ThomGault Senior member

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    I hate to burst your bubble, but EU laws applies to foreign companies doing business in the EU. :p
     
  13. Fueco

    Fueco Senior member

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    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
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  14. ThomGault

    ThomGault Senior member

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    EU long-arm jurisdiction statutes apply to items sold to consumers in the EU, even through the U.S. eBay site. Now, whether or not someone would take you to court in the EU over a small amount is a different matter.
     
  15. Fueco

    Fueco Senior member

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    My business is based in Colorado. If what you are saying is true, an EU citizen on vacation in the US would have that same right if they walked into a shop here.

    Regardless, what you are saying directly contradicts what EBay CSRs have told me.
     
  16. Fueco

    Fueco Senior member

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    Can you point me towards a source for you claim?

    What I'm finding online regarding the EU's "cooling off period" is that it only applies to defective items. These would be covered by Ebay's guarantee anyway. This particular buyer did not like the fit of a pair of shoes he bought from me.


    Hindsight being 20-20 and all, I really wish that I'd just clicked "accept return" and not sent him a message. By trying to do the right thing, I got f--ked...
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
  17. ThomGault

    ThomGault Senior member

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    I don't practice international law, but a good source for you to start with is http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=URISERV:l33054 , specifically the part concerning contracts concluded by consumers. The basic legal theory is that if a business sells a product to a consumer in a foreign country, there is enough contact for the plaintiff's local court to exercise jurisdiction over the defendant. Of course, this is just a mental exercise, because no one in the EU is going to sue you, and even if they did, it'd be a pain to enforce the judgment in the U.S.
     
  18. Fueco

    Fueco Senior member

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    No I do not take legal advice from Ebay reps, but I do expect them to steer me in the right direction with regard to this stuff.


    Re your link. That seems to deal with people and businesses within the EU itself. I am neither domiciled in, nor do I own a business in the EU. As I said before, my listings are on Ebay-US. If Ebay-US chooses to show my listings to people in the EU, would they not be the responsible party in any frivolous lawsuit? If Ebay could force me to pay for return shipping from the EU for a non-defective item, I would most certainly NOT be selling with shipping to any EU country.

    Also, like I said, the two week cooling off provision in EU law mirrors the policy that Ebay has regarding defective goods (SNAD cases, etc.), therefor this entire discussion is moot. In the case we are discussing, the buyer did not claim the item was defective, only that it did not fit him. The return would not be required by EU law, EVEN IF I was in the EU.
     
  19. ThomGault

    ThomGault Senior member

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    I don't have the experience in international law to dot all my i's and cross my t's, but, the pertinent language is
    Quote: Emphasis mine. By selling to someone in the EU, you've directed your business activities toward an EU country. The fact that its facilitated by eBay is immaterial---ebay isn't the seller or buyer---you are selling your products to a buyer in a EU country. That can give a EU court jurisdiction over you, which, as I already mentioned, is theoretical because no one is going to file an international lawsuit over a pair of shoes.
     
  20. Fueco

    Fueco Senior member

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    Actually, I did find something that seems to indicate people outside of the EU:

    Quote:
    As a lawyer-type, can you shed some light on "person who pursues commercial or professional activities in the EU country in which the consumer is domiciled..."

    That would seem to me to be aimed at people who actively pursue commercial activities in the EU. I do not actively pursue customers in the EU. They have to come to the US Ebay site to find my goods.
     

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