Brown herribone and navy herribone as 2nd and 3rd jackets?

[JezeC]

So navy is pretty much the standard - most versatile - jacket available.

The 2nd and 3rd jackets can be subjective, but reading conflicting information on it.

Certain posts on SF indicate that subtle herringbone makes a great 2nd piece for a casual jacket, but others think herringbone is a borderline orphaned suit.

What do you think?

 

[GBR]

A bolder herringbone is normal; for a jacket. Suits tend to be finer herringbones.

 

[archibaldleach]

If the herringbone pattern is obvious, you don't need to worry about it looking like an orphaned suit jacket, especially if it's tweed. Bonus points if it also has patch pockets. But you need a clear herringbone pattern, not the sort of subtle and barely discernable one that you might see on a shirt or conservative suit. Brown is a great color for a second odd jacket.

I would not get a navy herringbone as your third odd jacket if you already have something in navy. I understand having a fall / winter blazer and one for summer, but a herringbone jacket doesn't seem to give you much in way of added utility. Various check patterns, even a black / white herringbone, would all be better choices for jacket #3.

 

[JezeC]

What about gray herringbone? Im guessing it's really hard to match right?

 

[archibaldleach]



What about gray herringbone? Im guessing it's really hard to match right?

I have one. I believe it was the third odd jacket I bought in the wardrobe revamp I started about 15 months ago. In retrospect, it was a mistake. I love the fabric (extremely soft and luxurious Loro Piana wool cashmere blend) but I don't wear it a lot. A higher contrast herringbone (black and white vs. two shades of grey), even if it may resolve to grey from a distance, is a better bet.

Works in the collection of 11 or so odd jackets I have now and I am glad to have it, but it wasn't the best choice in the beginning.

 

[JezeC]

Quote:
Would you be able to show me some pictures? Thanks.

 

[archibaldleach]

Here are a couple pictures of the jacket with various shirt and tie combinations. I'd say the second one is probably more accurate in terms of the color of the jacket. Sadly no pictures with trousers.

 

[JezeC]

that's an amazing jacket. so you felt that another color would have been better as your 3rd piece? either way, it's really, really nice!

 

[archibaldleach]



that's an amazing jacket. so you felt that another color would have been better as your 3rd piece? either way, it's really, really nice!

Thanks. I like it a lot too. It's one of those things I bought because it looked awesome but I didn't give too much thought re: what would go with in in terms of trousers. It's pretty versatile in terms of shirt and tie combinations but for someone who wears mostly grey trousers, there are a lot of days where it doesn't make sense to put it on.

 

[comrade]



Thanks. I like it a lot too. It's one of those things I bought because it looked awesome but I didn't give too much thought re: what would go with in in terms of trousers. It's pretty versatile in terms of shirt and tie combinations but for someone who wears mostly grey trousers, there are a lot of days where it doesn't make sense to put it on.

I wish one could buy something like that in the better stores in San Francisco.

 

[archibaldleach]



I wish one could buy something like that in the better stores in San Francisco.

Got mine from Hemrajani, who I think is based out in California and should have someone travel to San Francisco. Shouldn't be too hard to source the fabric or something similar or get it from a tailor. I want to say it's either 95/5 or 90/10 wool/cashmere from Loro Piana and they have one in the grey above, one in brown and one in blue. Bower Roebuck has something similar in a worsted cashmere that is a black and white herringbone (I have their black and white worsted cashmere houndstooth so I passed) that I imagine would make up a nice jacket too.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

Just as a side note, it's a myth that patch pockets are the standard for odd jackets. This is partly a cultural thing and partly a matter of trying to be too precise about 'rules'. Of course, in the pre-modern era, a 'pocket' was an entirely separate item of dress. In more modern times in the UK, patch pockets were traditionally the standard for blazers and an option for anything else. Not all odd jackets are blazers, and an odd jacket with flapped or jetted pockets is perfectly acceptable and not less of an odd jacket because of it. Many tweed odd jackets or country suits had hybrid flapped patch pockets (shooting jackets had 'bellows pockets' which had a kind of concertina effect and could be loaded with shotgun shells etc.). On the other hand, from a somewhat different cultural tradition, Italian suits, particular Neapolitan ones often had (and still often have) patch pockets. This is because suits aren't necessarily more formal than odd jackets in modern Italian thinking. This has influenced the return in other parts of the world of 'blazer suits' or other casual suits that are designed to be worn together or split. The current strength of the Neapolitan influence is also why we have become used to odd jackets having softer shoulders etc.

If you list features, you soon find that what differentiates a suit jacket from an odd jacket is much more of a grey area and it's more a case of knowing it when you see it than ticking a list of boxes. There are some things that are only really associated with suits or pre-modern suit type of ensembles like strollers (e.g. pinstripes) and particular worsted wool suiting material. But not that many things.

Carry on!

 

[archibaldleach]

^ I agree that odd jackets do not require patch pockets and that suits do not require flap pockets (though I would avoid patch pockets in a conservative business dress context), but patch pockets are the more casual option and do seem to go better with odd jackets, all else being the same. Patch pockets do give a more casual vibe, which one often wants with an odd jacket. I do not have patch pockets on my DB navy blazer, DB cream linen jacket or SB grey herringbone jacket and don't worry that they'll be mistaken for orphaned suit jackets, but I do generally prefer patch pockets and have them on 8 of 11 odd jackets.

There are also some threads that discuss the differences between suit jackets and odd jackets that are worth reading here. I think fabric is the most meaningful differentiator, though with a navy blazer buttons and pockets become more important.

 

[comrade]



Got mine from Hemrajani, who I think is based out in California and should have someone travel to San Francisco. Shouldn't be too hard to source the fabric or something similar or get it from a tailor. I want to say it's either 95/5 or 90/10 wool/cashmere from Loro Piana and they have one in the grey above, one in brown and one in blue. Bower Roebuck has something similar in a worsted cashmere that is a black and white herringbone (I have their black and white worsted cashmere houndstooth so I passed) that I imagine would make up a nice jacket too.

You are correct. Hemrajani, as well as Chan, NSM and now Steed visit the Bay Area. What I mean is that
Niemans, Saks, Barneys who basically sell "Italian for the American Market" have nothing like a basic herringbone,
houndstooth, let alone a barleycorn or heather tweed.
This is the muddy-patterned dreck that sells locally for the price of a used Honda:

http://www.neimanmarcus.com/Brunell...nements%3D&eItemId=prod158970339&cmCat=search

 

[FlyingMonkey]

There are also some threads that discuss the differences between suit jackets and odd jackets that are worth reading here. I think fabric is the most meaningful differentiator, though with a navy blazer buttons and pockets become more important.

Yes, and I've contributed to some of them... I think you are right on the mark here. It really does come down to fabric colour, pattern and texture.

What I would add is that while it's almost always possible for fabric mainly intended for odd jackets to be worn successfully as a suit, it is far less likely for fabric that is primarily aimed at being made into suits, especially conservative business dress suits, to be successfully worn as an odd jacket. conservative business dress suits are a kind of uniform and wearing parts of them in another way always means you highlight the fact that you are doing something incongruous. So don't do it unless your intention is just to say 'I'm wearing a suit jacket and I don't care' in a kind of rock star way, which only works for people with some serious charisma.