Briefcase Appreciation thread

[raindog]

That, too. Or online shops charge you more if you log in with a Mac.

Having said that, I think it's not exactly the same thing. When I imagine myself as a case maker, I would definitely charge more for my labour on unicorn leather, than on an ordinary Sedgwick .

 

[trlhtn]



The V-shaped stitching looks kind of bad in this picture. Would you mind posting a close-up shot in normal daylight? 

 

[trlhtn]

Here's another pic of the bag

 

[Equus Leather]



I'm not sure if Ray still does MTO but you could email him or message him on Etsy and he would give you an update.

Hand stitching and Sedgwick bridle butt definitely comes with a premium, you could see from past replies here that Simon (casemaker) charges up to USD4k and beyond for his briefcases and the wait list is couple of years but that comes with the fact that his hand stitch work is worth a premium at the SPI he's doing as well as he only uses the best bridle butt out there in the market.

Also, not all hand stitching are of equal standard since it all depends on the craftsman experience, time and effort and for some, sometimes the hand stitch work looks so poor that going machine stitch might yield better work. I've never purchased anything from Niestroj before but his hand stitch work judging by the photos taken on his instagram seem decent?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BE1plComkUm/

But if you compare it with Simon's below (can't find any closer close-up pic), you can see the awl work and the saddle stitch has a pronounced zig-zag pattern which is generally regarded as desirable in saddle stitching work.

http://cdn.styleforum.net/8/84/900x900px-LL-84f64316_IMG_1963.jpeg

It should be emphasised Simon is stitching at approaching twice the stitch count here, so twice as much time and thread, give or take a bit. Different level of attention to detail..

 

[Jr Mouse]

I think it's important to keep in mind that hand stitching is itself not always going to yield superior construction. There are makers who hand stitch leather goods with sub-pair craftsmanship and machine stitching can yield really good results. This is of course not directed at anyone mentioned recently in this thread, but I think it's important to keep in mind when comparing makers. By default, hand stitching is not always worth spending more on.

 

[Equus Leather]



I think it's important to keep in mind that hand stitching is itself not always going to yield superior construction. There are makers who hand stitch leather goods with sub-pair craftsmanship and machine stitching can yield really good results. This is of course not directed at anyone mentioned recently in this thread, but I think it's important to keep in mind when comparing makers. By default, hand stitching is not always worth spending more on.

Thats true, but if your comparing professionally made work, the companies (not hobbyists or bedroom based companies) who hand stitch are going to be on top of their game and are doing it because they're good at it and because they're going the extra mile. Sewing machines are trivially cheap compared to the cost of skilled labour, its a very good guide to the amount of time a company is putting into a product. Just as a simple example, fully machine stitching a belt might take 10 mins, fully handstitching might take 3 or 4 hours. Big difference in the time and thus care investment..

 

[raindog]

I really enjoy this exchange, it's very informative.
I don't mean to disagree or to dissent in any way, but I'd like to know your opinion on my opinion .

Personally, I'm very happy with the quality of stitching in Darek's bags. They are definitely superior to anything I've ever had (but I haven't had any high quality, hand-stitched leather items). Also, aesthetically it's rather pleasing. Here is a close-up of a stitching on my recent acquisition (I know this same picture has already been posted, and if you find it inappropriate or a waste of space, I'll delete it from this post):



Now, I know from the maker himself that the density of this stitching is five stitches per inch. This is his 'default' stitching and as far as both aesthetics and durability go, I'm happy with this. However, Darek also mentioned that for some extra $*, he can use a denser stitching - 7 or 9 stitches per inch (I think 9 is his limit now). Here is an example of one of his work with 7 spi:



Arguably, it does look nicer on a close-up picture, but I have never seriously considered paying extra for better stitching. Why? Because I don't think it will increase the durability of the bag (quite the contrary, denser stitching means more holes, and for a layman like me more holes means less durability ).

What do you think? Should I have paid for some extra stitching, is it worth it? Also, how do you (I'm addressing the professionals here) judge the quality of Darek's stitching?

*I have no idea how much exactly is 'some extra $' - you'd have to ask Darek directly, or I can ask on your behalf, if anyone's interested.

 

[Equus Leather]



I really enjoy this exchange, it's very informative. I don't mean to disagree or to dissent in any way, but I'd like to know your opinion on my opinion . Personally, I'm very happy with the quality of stitching in Darek's bags. They are definitely superior to anything I've ever had (but I haven't had any high quality, hand-stitched leather items). Also, aesthetically it's rather pleasing. Here is a close-up of a stitching on my recent acquisition (I know this same picture has already been posted, and if you find it inappropriate or a waste of space, I'll delete it from this post): Now, I know from the maker himself that the density of this stitching is five stitches per inch. This is his 'default' stitching and as far as both aesthetics and durability go, I'm happy with this. However, Darek also mentioned that for some extra $*, he can use a denser stitching - 7 or 9 stitches per inch (I think 9 is his limit now). Here is an example of one of his work with 7 spi: Arguably, it does look nicer on a close-up picture, but I have never seriously considered paying extra for better stitching. Why? Because I don't think it will increase the durability of the bag (quite the contrary, denser stitching means more holes, and for a layman like me more holes means less durability ). What do you think? Should I have paid for some extra stitching, is it worth it? Also, how do you (I'm addressing the professionals here) judge the quality of Darek's stitching? *I have no idea how much exactly is 'some extra $' - you'd have to ask Darek directly, or I can ask on your behalf, if anyone's interested.

His stitching looks nice. The angle and uniformity are good and the reverse side (from what can be seen) is good. In part the SPI used for a product is an aesthetic choice, and traditionally (in Europe) 5spi would be used only for rough/heavy work, 8spi for everyday run of the mill work emphasising strength, 10spi is usual and 12spi is for fine work. Theres certainly room for manover within this (and I manover within it based on aesthetic) and the school of work and the location of the craftsman will determine what he considers normal, as will the amount of time he's prepared to put into something, the leather and thickness used and the price being paid. To my way of thinking his 7spi work is much nicer than the 5spi, but I stitch at a minimum of 8, and more often at 10 or 12 so thats what my eye is trained towards and is my own bias. In terms of durability, I think the weight of thread is more important than pitch, all things being equal. Seams should always be along the edge, not across a strap and so the holes shouldn't be a weakness, and while 12spi wouldnt be at all appropriate for the top of that briefcase 5, 8 or 10 should all be fine given sensible thread, and personally I would go for 8. Ive never seen a case where the stitching has physically torn like a stamp, done right either the thread will eventually rot or wear if the item in question is subject to very heavy use, weather, damp or poor care or the leather will phsically break elsewhere before the stitch marks cause a problem Much more to it than this, but hopefully a brief answer! Charlie

 

[raindog]

Very helpful and informative indeed, thank you Charlie!

I wonder if the standards you mentioned apply to briefcases and to smaller items (belts, straps, wallets...) equally?

 

[Equus Leather]



Very helpful and informative indeed, thank you Charlie!

I wonder if the standards you mentioned apply to briefcases and to smaller items (belts, straps, wallets...) equally?

Good!

Yes, that was quite a generic answer rather than briefcase specific. Wallets/watch straps should be 10 or 12 spi, belts and briefcases 8 or 10spi, by the European school at least. A 12 spi belt wouldnt generally be correct (though quite an impressive amount of stiching) and an 8 spi wallet also wouldnt be correct, though in the right circumstances both could be done. Its all about the right aesthetic and the right design with the right materials

Charlie

 

[letsi]



His stitching looks nice. The angle and uniformity are good and the reverse side (from what can be seen) is good. In part the SPI used for a product is an aesthetic choice, and traditionally (in Europe) 5spi would be used only for rough/heavy work, 8spi for everyday run of the mill work emphasising strength, 10spi is usual and 12spi is for fine work. Theres certainly room for manover within this (and I manover within it based on aesthetic) and the school of work and the location of the craftsman will determine what he considers normal, as will the amount of time he's prepared to put into something, the leather and thickness used and the price being paid. To my way of thinking his 7spi work is much nicer than the 5spi, but I stitch at a minimum of 8, and more often at 10 or 12 so thats what my eye is trained towards and is my own bias.

In terms of durability, I think the weight of thread is more important than pitch, all things being equal. Seams should always be along the edge, not across a strap and so the holes shouldn't be a weakness, and while 12spi wouldnt be at all appropriate for the top of that briefcase 5, 8 or 10 should all be fine given sensible thread, and personally I would go for 8. Ive never seen a case where the stitching has physically torn like a stamp, done right either the thread will eventually rot or wear if the item in question is subject to very heavy use, weather, damp or poor care or the leather will phsically break elsewhere before the stitch marks cause a problem

Much more to it than this, but hopefully a brief answer!

Charlie

Good!

Yes, that was quite a generic answer rather than briefcase specific. Wallets/watch straps should be 10 or 12 spi, belts and briefcases 8 or 10spi, by the European school at least. A 12 spi belt wouldnt generally be correct (though quite an impressive amount of stiching) and an 8 spi wallet also wouldnt be correct, though in the right circumstances both could be done. Its all about the right aesthetic and the right design with the right materials

Charlie

Glad to hear further clarifications with regards to the SPI that I have mentioned and how it affects "perceived quality".
I myself wouldn't be able to articulate them as well as Charlie did and I learnt new stuff that I didn't know too. Great discussion going on here

 

[Equus Leather]



Glad to hear further clarifications with regards to the SPI that I have mentioned and how it affects "perceived quality".
I myself wouldn't be able to articulate them as well as Charlie did and I learnt new stuff that I didn't know too. Great discussion going on here

Pleased to help! I love hand stitching so this is one of my favorite subjects.

Not briefcases, but for reference

8spi in Bridle leather (Belt)

10 spi in Ostrich (Travel Bag)

12 spi in Calf (Wallet Pockets)

10spi could have been used for all of them, but aesthetically theres a big difference in the subtelty of the look created by the different choices, IMHO anyway

Charlie

 

[hindi ako]

Thoughts on Burberry briefcases like this? Any place in classic style the Burberry check or is it just tacky?

 

[raindog]

Burberry used to make splendid coats, but a briefcase from them sounds to me like a waste of money. If you like the check (like I do), the only 'visible' place to wear it without looking like a chav is, IMO, a tie.

 

[The Equestrian]

Anybody know what happened to Ray Clark's Etsy shop?