Brazilian Jiu Jitsu: Royce Gracie vs. Kung Fu master

Discussion in 'Social Life, Food & Drink, Travel' started by Soph, Aug 27, 2006.

  1. Gradstudent78

    Gradstudent78 Senior member

    Messages:
    2,309
    Likes Received:
    18
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2003
    Location:
    Chicago
    If all you want out of what your learning is self defense then your probably better off taking an actual course geared at self defense. If you want fitness, health, or sports benefits as well then you should take something else based on your individual needs and tastes.
     
  2. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

    Messages:
    33,832
    Likes Received:
    11,879
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2002
    Location:
    Moscow, Idaho
    If all you want out of what your learning is self defense then your probably better off taking an actual course geared at self defense. If you want fitness, health, or sports benefits as well then you should take something else based on your individual needs and tastes.

    I agree with this completely. However, I've taught self-defense classes, and must stress that what is taught are basic (and effective) forms to defend oneself against aggressors who do not expect you to defend yourself vigorously (it's worth mentioning that most of the students in these classes are female.) These classes are not designed to teach you how to fight, although, of course, lots of the techniques are derived from martial arts techniques.
     
  3. Largo

    Largo Senior member

    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2006
    Location:
    East Coast, US
    As reluctant as I am to jump into the ring with this sort of debate, I personally believe there's a huge school of difference between "a fight" and MMA-style battles. In a fight there isn't typically a lot of technical considerations involved. As much as Mizanation would inform us that Kung-Fu sucks, I can speak from first-hand experience that it's not in any way an ineffective defense in a fight-assuming you were taught efficiently. MMA however, is a totally different beast.

    Having already said that I endorse Kung-Fu as a self-defense discipline. If you take it into a martial art vs. martial art scenario, then no-it's not the best path one could take, but if it's taught properly, then you should be able to handle yourself out in the world in more "casual" circumstances.

    edit: Disclaimer-my first hand experience consists of watching other people. [​IMG]
     
  4. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

    Messages:
    33,832
    Likes Received:
    11,879
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2002
    Location:
    Moscow, Idaho
    As reluctant as I am to jump into the ring with this sort of debate ...

    Ah, but you did, and now you too are an internet ninja [​IMG]
     
  5. Largo

    Largo Senior member

    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2006
    Location:
    East Coast, US
    Ah, but you did, and now you too are an internet ninja [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Oh no! Now what do I do?!?
     
  6. Tokyo Slim

    Tokyo Slim In Time Out

    Messages:
    19,179
    Likes Received:
    13
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    Location:
    Where Eagles Dare!
    [​IMG]

    Oh no! Now what do I do?!?


    I would reccomend a broadband smoke bomb, then a super jump into a digital tree. Don't forget to fling a few cyber-shiruken as a parting gift!
     
  7. Matt

    Matt [email protected]

    Messages:
    11,179
    Likes Received:
    114
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2005
    Location:
    Sunny Saigon
    I'LL KICK ALL YOUR ASSES!!!

    (as long as we dont have to leave the internet to have the fight...gulp...its scary out there)
     
  8. arenn

    arenn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2006
    Brazilian jui jitsu was dominant maybe up until 10 years ago when Royce showed it to the world. Ever since it's all about the "well rounded fighter" - the ones who are well versed in stand-up, grappling, and wrestling now are the kings of the hill.

    My friend who is a Brazillian jiu-jitsu nut and personally knows several of the Gracies tells me that most of them in fact "cross-train" in other disciplines like boxing.
     
  9. Brian SD

    Brian SD Moderator

    Messages:
    9,760
    Likes Received:
    122
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2004
    Location:
    Tokyo
    My friend who is a Brazillian jiu-jitsu nut and personally knows several of the Gracies tells me that most of them in fact "cross-train" in other disciplines like boxing.
    That's the problem that pretty much everyone overlooks when it comes to this argument... No good fighter, be a striking martial art or a wrestling one, is going to be completely one-sided in their training. I know for sure that if I wanted to be a ring-fighter I wouldn't restrict my training to only Muay Thai. You need to be an excellent fighter all around to do any good. That said, Wing Chun, which is the entire basis for Bruce Lee's martial arts, is a form of Kung Fu and involves takedowns and general combat counters. I wouldn't say that it differs greatly from Judo in it's effectiveness. Also that said, I find myself much more interested in the striking martial arts, because I think it's more athletic and fun.
     
  10. Brian SD

    Brian SD Moderator

    Messages:
    9,760
    Likes Received:
    122
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2004
    Location:
    Tokyo
    Have you seen Serkan Yilmaz fight? The man is an animal, and he has done incredibly well in K-1.
     
  11. Reggs

    Reggs Senior member

    Messages:
    5,534
    Likes Received:
    380
    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2006
    Location:
    The Internet
    Is this real life fighting?

     
  12. someoneNew

    someoneNew Senior member

    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2006
    Location:
    bay area
    Classic, Bas is a total comedian. He's a world champ though so he definitely knows what he's talking about.
     
  13. mizanation

    mizanation Senior member

    Messages:
    927
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    May 8, 2006
    Have you seen Serkan Yilmaz fight? The man is an animal, and he has done incredibly well in K-1.

    no, he has not done incredibly well in k-1 max (some of it due to poor judging). he's a great athlete, has great hands and has definitely cross-trained in other styles (i've seen footage of him in a san shou tourney). if he can pick up bjj and wrestling like he picked up boxing, he will do pretty well in mma. to say that he is an example of the effectiveness of TKD is missing the point. he is a good fighter because he was smart enough to learn stuff that he never learned in TKD. punching for example.

    even kyokushin does pretty poorly in k-1. however, after a kyokushin fighter trains a lot with k-1/muay thai rules, they do a lot better. case in point, andy hug, francisco filho, glaube feitosa. all of them had trouble adjusting, but ended up doing pretty well eventually.

    i'm not blindly knocking tkd, i'm an ITF black belt with successful tournament experience. i stopped doing TKD 10 years ago to learn more important skills. am i glad i spent all that time training TKD? sure. but do i wish i spent that time training muay thai, bjj or wrestling instead? of course!
     
  14. Tck13

    Tck13 Senior member

    Messages:
    5,758
    Likes Received:
    77
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Location:
    Philly
    Classic, Bas is a total comedian. He's a world champ though so he definitely knows what he's talking about.

    Who's Bas? At what is he a world champ? Never heard of him...
     
  15. mizanation

    mizanation Senior member

    Messages:
    927
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    May 8, 2006
    ^^^ bas rutten is a legendary pioneer in mixed martial arts. he competed in japan in the pancrase organization where he became champion. he was one of the first dominant fighters in mixed martial arts whose main mode of fighting was striking. he later became a very well-rounded fighter and a coach of champions. in pancrase, he defeated many outstanding fighters including frank shamrock.

    later, he fought in the UFC and became a heavyweight champion.

    fighters that he has coached: duane ludwig, genki sudo, ricco rodriguez, mark kerr, and many others--many have become champions in various organizations.

    now, he is a very popular commentator for the US broadcast of Pride FC.

    he recently made a return to the ring and won by KO.
     

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by