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Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by ulf, Sep 9, 2002.

  1. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

    Mar 8, 2002
    Moscow, Idaho
    Not to wear out this particular drum, but I think that an important distinction needs to be made between, say, Raf Simons, who is vocally populist, and for example, Ralph Lauren and his Savile Row cronies, who reference elitist images - country manors, heritage jewelry, etc... That the imagery is historically false, that the suit was in fact, not emblematic of the moneyed classes, and was actually a step away from class distinctions based on clothing is irrelevant in this case, except to further the irony.
  2. pstoller

    pstoller Senior member

    May 24, 2002
    Los Angeles
    I suppose the question I should ask here is, why is it important? Obviously, there's a distinction between Simons' aesthetic and that of Savile Row, but what makes it critical? My point about the lack of real populism in couture still stands: the street culture that Simons celebrates and emulates is made up of people who, for the most part, can't afford to buy his clothes (unless they're doing it with their parents' money), and the people who can afford them wouldn't want to be associated with the street kids directly"”only with their purported hipness. Is that really less ironic than referencing the humble business suit as an emblem of romantic bygone aristocracy? Ralph Lauren is a special case, because his references run the gamut. His Purple Label pretensions are nearly pure Savile Row, but he simultaneously romanticizes the mythic American West and the New England preppy set, as well. As Lauren is one of the few designers who has earned respect both as a high-end designer and a purveyor of truly accessible (and ubiquitous) streetwear, he may be the truest populist of the bunch. Nobody will ever accuse Lauren of being cutting edge, but he's nailed mainstream casual chic across class barriers.
  3. Timothy

    Timothy Senior member

    Mar 5, 2002
    To get this topic back on track I liked the comment made by the corrupt, bowtie-wearing doctor in David Mamet's movie State and Main. "A tie is supposed to point down, to emphasize the genitals, why would you trust somebody whose tie points outward, to emphasize the ears?"
  4. bowtielover

    bowtielover Senior member

    Nov 1, 2007
    Cincinnati OH
    To disagree with that horrid movie quote and a fomer employer, I will prounly say that I am a fan and daily wearer. Actually I have been ever since i was a young lad and would never consider wearing neckties not even once. For me it's is the practicality and the way i look in them and of course my father used to wear them and well that was the only option for me growing up and I guess I just sort of grew into them, as my sons are doing now.
  5. dirk diggler

    dirk diggler Senior member

    Mar 12, 2006
    In the Lou
    I wear them about 2 or 3 times per week. People have come to expect me to wear them, esp. to Bar Association events. We had a meeting last night and several other men, all regular tie wearers, decided to sport bowties.

    Tonight I have a dinner to attend in honor of a federal judge and I suspect there will plenty of us wearing our bowties.
  6. TCN

    TCN Senior member

    Jun 22, 2004
    That was a nice volley gentlemen. I happen to side with pstoller on the issue.

    Re: bowties, I am shocked that so many on this site, of all places, hold them in such low regard.

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