Bourgogne vs. Bordeaux

Discussion in 'Social Life, Food & Drink, Travel' started by Bouji, Mar 26, 2006.

  1. Bouji

    Bouji Senior member

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    Which are you a drinker of? Personally, Bourgogne (Burgundy) is my favorite wine.
    Of course they are both a different kettle of fish, Bourgogne is fruity, light and floral for the most part, certainly archetypical of Pinot Noir.
    Some argue that Bordeaux is far more complex, I agree in some respects. I enjoy St. Emilion, but despise Medoc.
    However, in my opinion, Bordeaux is only complex, because it uses a greater variery of grapes. It's not as if it is because of the terroir.
    Who says a complex wine is a good wine? Chablis is one of my favorite white wines, and its dead simple.
    I am talking here as a tipple, not with food, personaly Bordeaux is good with beef, stews etc, St. Emilion is especially good with lamb. Bourgogne is better suited to duck confit, game, etc.
    One disadvantage of Bourgogne is that you have to spend a little more on for a good Nuits or Beaune; when for the same price you can get a 1er Cru St. Estephe
    Specifically I am talking about red wine here; I am a drinker of both, but because Bordeaux does not produce and "˜good' whites, and is clearly no competition for Bourgogne - it is better to compare reds.
     


  2. whoopee

    whoopee Senior member

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    No doubt for me, Burgundy. Unfortunately the price is high given the inconsistency, but I find a great Burgundy so much more memorably than a Bordeaux, partly for that reason. Plus I do not eat the lamb nor beef often.

    And while white Burgundy no doubt towers over Bordeaux blanc, I personally drink more of the latter as it pairs really well with the food I eat, and is reasonably priced. I for one have a bunch of Carbonnieux Blanc that is always ready to go for duty at a BYOB or casual, lighter dinner. Graves is an overlooked gem, IMO.
     


  3. Bouji

    Bouji Senior member

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    No doubt for me, Burgundy. Unfortunately the price is high given the inconsistency, but I find a great Burgundy so much more memorably than a Bordeaux, partly for that reason. Plus I do not eat the lamb nor beef often.

    And while white Burgundy no doubt towers over Bordeaux blanc, I personally drink more of the latter as it pairs really well with the food I eat, and is reasonably priced. I for one have a bunch of Carbonnieux Blanc that is always ready to go for duty at a BYOB or casual, lighter dinner. Graves is an overlooked gem, IMO.

    Bourgogne tends to be quite expensive in the US. Here in London, you can get a good Bourgogne Appellation Controlled Pinot Noir from M&S for 6 GBP, about $10.20 at today's rate.
    The disadvantage of that specific wine is that it is a blend of both Nuits and Beaune, but this also leads to an interesting drink.
    Probably, the cheapest one would find a good vintage of Nuits St. Georges would be around 10 pounds.
    A bit of knowledge about the vintages, can help to overcome inconsistency issues. Of course, that is not everyone's cup of tea, and point taken; Bordeaux does offer better value and better consistency. My only reservation is that it can be very "˜same old'.
    Additionally, recently consistency issues have been greatly minimised (anything after 1999).
    Which is your Bourgogne wine of preference?
     


  4. Vaclav

    Vaclav Senior member

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    No doubt for me, Burgundy.

    Whoopee,do you know,Moore brothers?
     


  5. whoopee

    whoopee Senior member

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    When I lived in London, I drank continental wines aplenty. But honestly, the Burgundies I was enjoying generally ran at least 20 pounds, and usually considerably more. You and I agree about Bordeaux being boring.Disregarding the fabulously priced wines of Vosne-Romanee that I cannot regularly afford but will gladly drink on another's dime, I always fall for a beautifully fragrant Chambolle-Musigny.

    Moore Brothers have a good selection of French, Italian, and German wines from small producers. I don't get to New Jersey (or Delaware) often enough. The service is excellent (staff are very knowledgeable and keep records of customer preferences) and the wines rarely disappoint for the price, and it's always fun to drink something hard to find elsewhere. Plus, unlike PA Wine stores which are way overheated (along with many more unsavory aspects of the wine/spirits state monopoly), the stock is actually kept in a proper environment.
     


  6. Vaclav

    Vaclav Senior member

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    Moore Brothers have a good selection of French, Italian, and German wines from small producers.


    Yes I know,they are opening a store in NY too.
     


  7. whoopee

    whoopee Senior member

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    That should be a nice addition. What merchants do you frequent? Sherry Lehmann are the only one I regularly patronise.
     


  8. Bouji

    Bouji Senior member

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    When I lived in London, I drank continental wines aplenty. But honestly, the Burgundies I was enjoying generally ran at least 20 pounds, and usually considerably more. You and I agree about Bordeaux being boring.Disregarding the fabulously priced wines of Vosne-Romanee that I cannot regularly afford but will gladly drink on another's dime, I always fall for a beautifully fragrant Chambolle-Musigny.

    Moore Brothers have a good selection of French, Italian, and German wines from small producers. I don't get to New Jersey (or Delaware) often enough. The service is excellent (staff are very knowledgeable and keep records of customer preferences) and the wines rarely disappoint for the price, and it's always fun to drink something hard to find elsewhere. Plus, unlike PA Wine stores which are way overheated (along with many more unsavory aspects of the wine/spirits state monopoly), the stock is actually kept in a proper environment.


    20 buys quite a good Burgundy, are you talking in a store or in a restaurant? In a restaurant I will not drink a wine for less than 60 pounds. The average I pay for my wine is about 20 a bottle in shops, but I'd say an average. I have a few bottles of Petrus, Yquem, etc. at home, but I don't include these in the average. I certainly cannot say they are boaring.

    In London I buy my wine from Berry Brothers and Rudd by the case, these tend to be drunk with food or on the weekend. However, for lunchtime wines and in the week I buy a lot from Marks and Spencer, and Waitrose.
     


  9. whoopee

    whoopee Senior member

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    I most often bought from my local Lea & Sandeman (3 minute walk), where there isn't much Burgundy under 20. Occasionally I would go to Corney & Barrow or Oddbins - the latter generally for New World wines. Do you drink much New World Pinot Noir? Oregon really makes some fine examples, though rather hard to find outside the USA. Some NZ wines go well with food and less profound moments.
     


  10. Bouji

    Bouji Senior member

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    I most often bought from my local Lea & Sandeman (3 minute walk), where there isn't much Burgundy under 20. Occasionally I would go to Corney & Barrow or Oddbins - the latter generally for New World wines. Do you drink much New World Pinot Noir? Oregon really makes some fine examples, though rather hard to find outside the USA. Some NZ wines go well with food and less profound moments.

    Don't get me started on New World wines.... [​IMG] [​IMG]

    In conversation with friends, they are reffered to as "New World Drain Water". I have had nothing but bad experinces.

    If someone on the table orders a New World wine, I drink Scotch.

    If I want some variety, I go for Lebanese or Isralei wines, which cannot really be consdered New World IMO.

    I also drink a fair share of Italian and once in a while Spanish.

    I went to a Thresher once, they only had one Burgundy red, so that lead to the end of my visits to off licences for wine.
     


  11. Vaclav

    Vaclav Senior member

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    That should be a nice addition. What merchants do you frequent?

    Sometime I make it to Rosenthal Wine's,on the upper East.
     


  12. tiger02

    tiger02 Militarist

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    Additionally, recently consistency issues have been greatly minimised (anything after 1999).
    Which is, ironically, almost certainly due to the influence of the same consultant who advises on your despised American wines.

    Whoopee, Vaclav, who are the Jersey based Moore brothers?

    Tom
     


  13. tiger02

    tiger02 Militarist

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    whoah, first double post
     


  14. Bouji

    Bouji Senior member

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    Which is, ironically, almost certainly due to the influence of the same consultant who advises on your despised American wines.

    Whoopee, Vaclav, who are these Jersey based Moore brothers?

    Tom

    I don't see how this has any effect on terroir...
     


  15. whoopee

    whoopee Senior member

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    Tom, take a look at their website: http://www.wineaccess.com/splash/moorebrothers/

    It was opened by the former sommelier fo Le Bec-Fin, the French restaurant that put Philly dining on the map thirty years ago, and his brother. Basically they concentrate on French, German, and Italian wines from small producers at low prices, and away from the state monopoly of Pennsylvania. The size of the producers means that most wines are not rated by mainstream journalists and thus one has to rely on the staff's tastebuds, but this isn't really a problem. Also, as I've said before the staff and facilities are great: they keep records of customer preferences in their database, they know their products, and the stores are kept at ~55 degrees Fahrenheit.

    The main store is in Pennsauken, a couple miles out of Philly. There's a store in Delaware, and apparently will be one in NYC soon.
     


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