BMW slayer from GM

Discussion in 'Fine Living, Home, Design & Auto' started by Christofuh, Feb 25, 2007.

  1. Tyto

    Tyto Senior member

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    SG: I guess we disagree here (as opposed to politics). I don't feel numb at all when driving my Beemer. What car have you moved onto?
    IIRC, he has a Miata. And, y'know, I have to agree with his choice. I've loved every opportunity I've had to drive my friend's, and wish I could justify owning one. I'll grant that the only BMWs I've ever driven were a 2000 328 and a 2002 M3 (IIRC), and I thoroughly enjoyed them, but the handling and feedback of the Miata were sublime.
     


  2. LSeca

    LSeca Senior member

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    2002 M3 (IIRC), and I thoroughly enjoyed them, but the handling and feedback of the Miata were sublime.

    I have an '02 BMW M3, the car is known for feedback. A Miata handles well because it is small, lightweight, and down on power...very easy to take it to the limits. An M3 is so much faster and ALOT more car. The novice driver would end up in the weeds pushing an M3 if he/she was not careful (not saying this is you). The Miata is much easier to control as it isn't fast, but it is very fun.

    GM has a long way to go before they can compete with BMW. I would suggest they start by letting engineers build the cars and not the bean counters. Unfortunately, GM has to focus on selling thousands of Cavaliers, Cobalts, S10 pickups, etc as they have to satisfy the stock holders and show how many units they are selling.

    My '02 M3...hope I am posting this pic right, tried to before in a thread and messed it up.

    http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q.../lsb4me042.jpg
     


  3. nomovement

    nomovement Senior member

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    oh man I thought this was going to be a late 90's volvo 850r not a circus car that kids in inner-city highschools draw on the backs of their notebooks...
     


  4. SGladwell

    SGladwell Senior member

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    The novice driver would end up in the weeds pushing an M3 if he/she was not careful
    Nonsense. A novice driver wouldn't know that he was in an M3 instead of a 316 because at the speeds normal people drive on normal roads the only functional difference between them is that one has more power and rims more likely to succumb to curb rash. And even then, he wouldn't be able to tell the difference between an M3 and a Euro-market 330d if he floored it in the appropriate gear to pass on the highway. Except, probably, that the Diesel would be quicker. In other words, the limits of an M3 (and most moderns) are so ridiculously high that except for that weekend a two a year when one might find himself on a racetrack, they simply cannot be explored. A lightweight, communicative car, such as the Miata or even the bigger, heavier, wrong-wheel-drive Mini, allows a driver to actually enjoy every drive, instead of just the ones that only occur when the normal rules of the road no longer apply.
     


  5. LSeca

    LSeca Senior member

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    I should not have used the word "novice" but rather, used the less aggressive enthusaist driver as an example. The limits of the M3, like you stated, is what I was trying to relay. Finding the limits of a Miata is not too hard to do in comparison. To me, it is like driving a go-kart...very nimble but not enough power to satisfy.

    I have driven the 330d in Munich, I think your wrong. Yes, it is torque rich but not fun to drive for me. I prefer high-revving gasoline engines. I also prefer a tighter suspension and steering which the M3 has. Straight-line acceleration is only part of the equation.
     


  6. SGladwell

    SGladwell Senior member

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    To me, it is like driving a go-kart...very nimble but not enough power to satisfy.

    In other words, you make up for basic shortcomings in your driving style by over-relying on horsepower. Or, as Bob Hall (former AutoWeek journalist who headed the Miata design team in the 1980s) put it, "if you can't go fast with 90hp, 900hp won't help."
     


  7. Millerp

    Millerp Senior member

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    I'm not certain that GM itself is thinking of the Pontiac G8
    a a BMW slayer. Importing the Holden Commodore is
    a quick way for Pontiac to get back into the larger
    family size car market where potential sales competition
    will more likely be the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry
    rather than the BMW three series.

    The Holden Commodore and the Australian Ford Falcon are the biggest
    sellers in Australia and are often used as taxis. Most
    Australians don't put Commodore and BMW in the same
    sentence.

    BTW, the Holden Monaro rebadged as the Pontiac GTO
    never really took off in the US despite its V8 engine.
     


  8. DNW

    DNW Senior member

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    In other words, you make up for basic shortcomings in your driving style by over-relying on horsepower. Or, as Bob Hall (former AutoWeek journalist who headed the Miata design team in the 1980s) put it, "if you can't go fast with 90hp, 900hp won't help."

    Regardless of how you want to put it, at the end of the day the M3 is absolutely faster than a Miata. Arguing otherwise is just being obtuse.
     


  9. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    Regardless of how you want to put it, at the end of the day the M3 is absolutely faster than a Miata. Arguing otherwise is just being obtuse.

    +1

    Jon.
     


  10. briancl

    briancl Senior member

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    Regardless of how you want to put it, at the end of the day the M3 is absolutely faster than a Miata. Arguing otherwise is just being obtuse.

    I believe his argument is that in the modern M3, the driver is less connected to the road than in a Miata. There is something to be said about the raw simplicity of the Miata (especially the earlier models). I learned to drive on a red 91 5-speed and I still enjoying taking that car for a spin once a year or so when I visit my folks.

    In the two cars I've owned and modified, I've replaced 10-25 rubber bushing throughout the car with hardened (urethane or aluminum, depending on application) alternatives. Every bit helps in communicating feedback to the driver, and, all performance benefits aside, I believe it increases the pleasure of driving tremendously.

    I've been in the market for a new car for maybe 4 months or so; however, I'm not serious about purchasing anything because there is simply nothing out there for me. The Lotus Exige S is on the table, but I'm not in love with the car. The BMW's and Audi's of the world are nice, but bloated and soft. The Porsche's in my price range are compromised (GT3 out of reach [​IMG] ) I just don't know what to do or where to go, so I'm sticking with my STi for now.
     


  11. JetBlast

    JetBlast Senior member

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    Can no one design a car anymore? Seriously?

    [​IMG]

    We need more stuff like this on the road.

    JB
     


  12. DNW

    DNW Senior member

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    I believe his argument is that in the modern M3, the driver is less connected to the road than in a Miata. There is something to be said about the raw simplicity of the Miata (especially the earlier models). I learned to drive on a red 91 5-speed and I still enjoying taking that car for a spin once a year or so when I visit my folks.

    In the two cars I've owned and modified, I've replaced 10-25 rubber bushing throughout the car with hardened (urethane or aluminum, depending on application) alternatives. Every bit helps in communicating feedback to the driver, and, all performance benefits aside, I believe it increases the pleasure of driving tremendously.

    I've been in the market for a new car for maybe 4 months or so; however, I'm not serious about purchasing anything because there is simply nothing out there for me. The Lotus Exige S is on the table, but I'm not in love with the car. The BMW's and Audi's of the world are nice, but bloated and soft. The Porsche's in my price range are compromised (GT3 out of reach [​IMG] ) I just don't know what to do or where to go, so I'm sticking with my STi for now.


    I hear ya. I drove a Miata a few times in the late 90s on a track. There's no denying that the pleasure quotient is very high. It was very fun to throw the car around and have it dance upon the flick of your wrists. However, as as been said before, the absolute speed wasn't very satisfying, IMO. The sheer power of the M3 makes it more fun. I also had the pleasure of driving an E46 on the track as well. IIRC, I enjoyed the M3 much more than I did with the Miata. I recall having goosebumps and the hair standing on the back of my neck after a nice run. As comparables go, the Exige is that much better than the Miata simply because it has more power without giving up the go-cart like handling. Of course, the Exige S is that much better than the Exige. [​IMG] With all that said, the Miata is a pretty good bang for the buck, but I wouldn't own one.
     


  13. wEstSidE

    wEstSidE Senior member

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    even though it's ridiculously girly, the miata is an incredible car.

    anyway, i think someone asked about mitsus warranty deal. i don't know what they do anymore but they're probably still dicks about the warranty. it also depends on where you live.

    to the person who said bangle isn't all that bad: i agree. he's not the worst ever but his designs are not timely. he smoothed everything out too much and too quickly. last good 3-series was the e36 (e30 kicks ass too).
     


  14. DNW

    DNW Senior member

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    (e30 kicks ass too).
    I'd love to find a nice red E30 M3. Been lusting for one since I was a teenager. I actually prefer that one over E36 and E46 M3s. Something like this, with the original rims. [​IMG]
     


  15. LSeca

    LSeca Senior member

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    In other words, you make up for basic shortcomings in your driving style by over-relying on horsepower. Or, as Bob Hall (former AutoWeek journalist who headed the Miata design team in the 1980s) put it, "if you can't go fast with 90hp, 900hp won't help."

    How would you know what my driving style is like or my skill? My M3 is almost completely retired from street driving and spends most time at Pacific International Raceway. However, even on the street myself or most anyone could tell the diference between a Miata or an M3 regardless of their skill.

    I do like the Maita for what it is, in fact the manual short-throw shift is about the best you can get imo. My original comments were about the feedback of the car in relation to an M3 that someone commented on.

    DarknWorn, that E30 looks so badass. I had an e36 for a few years and would love to have the original one day.
     


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