Blog update: Rubinacci jacket, Anna M. shirt, Ambrosi pants, etc.

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

Bill, thanks for the thoughtful analysis. However, I don't see what's wrong with the sleeves. You see 'lifeless', but I just see sleeves that hang nicely. Rubinacci sleeves are typically quite full. Is it possible we are just disagreeing over a general matter of style?

Okay, I just emerged from being interviewed by a Korean television news crew (don't ask), and had one of the video crew snap a quick shot of what I am wearing today. It is not the single-button tweed coat that I mentioned earlier in the thread, but I think it is enough. Pardon the photographic quality and cropping, but I hope it is clear enough for what I am trying to say about the sleeves.

M's Rubinacci on the left, my DeBoise/Steed coat on the right.

Similarities: both are bespoke; both are draped coats; both have trumpeted sleeves; both have the sleeves worked into a smaller armhole.

Dissimilarities (attributable to posture, physiology, style, or fit, in unknown proportions): the front of the Rubinacci sleeve drops straighter from the shoulder in almost a vertical line to the cuff. The DeBoise curves with the hang of the arm both front and rear (sorry that the back of my arm is cut-off, but it also is fuller in the upper arm, like the Rubinacci, before going into that smaller armhole).

I'm turned a bit more to the camera than M., so if I were turned more away as he is, the curve of the DeBoise sleeve would be even more pronounced in comparison.

I think there is, in fact, a bit of a fit difference...and I feel, from M's photos, that the fit on his jacket could be improved in the sleeve. If, on the other hand, the straight down line of the sleeve is a stylistic artifact (e.g., a full sleeve not at the upper arm, but at the elbow), then it is a stylistic aspect of Rubinacci (at least in this specific coat) that I do not believe is most compelling attribute. That, indeed, would be a subjective matter. It seems to me M's arm is bent normally when looking at his elbow to wrist slope (it seems rather the same to my arm), but that is not reflected in the front sleeve line. I guess, now that I think about it, I do not like that straight sleeve line because I see it commonly in RTW.

I just have a hard time believing, however, that a tailor like Rubinacci would produce such a straight line on purpose, and that it is possible that the sleeve could be rotated a bit forward in future coats. I know M is maybe standing more upright that his natural posture, and this might explain the dimpling in the rear of the upper arm and below the elbow, but still, the front sleeve line is not my favorite, and I think it possible that if rotated on his left a bit clockwise, some or all of it would remedied.

But still: a very, very handsome coat worn by M with soignÃ

. I am going to check out a Solito that I have when I return home to see if that straight front sleeve line is a Neapolitan thing.

- B

 

[HitMan009]

From my perspective, this coat style doesn't work for your body type. Others have focused on each and every detail to point out why it needs work. I want to talk about the overall effect and elaborate a bit more on why this outfit is not flattering on you. The reason for shapes, silhouettes etc is to bring someone to look as close as possible to the ideal form of a man. I believe from reading your blog and seeing the pictures on you, you need a leaner style. Something with narrower lapels, a lower waist and less flaring with the skirt. Natural shoulders are nice and everyone should aim only for as much padding as necessary. I think you need stronger shoulders, not to give an illusion of height but to minimize the size of your head. Proportion and balance are the main reasons for getting bespoke IMHO. Also, people can correct me but looking at your pics, I don't see you having big shoulders and a big chest. Your features are rounder then squarish so you need clothes that would bring out the latter. You can wear this coat when you get older and attain more character to your face... ie, an older looking face.


Style is not style if the look doesn't work for you.

 

[itsstillmatt]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

M's Rubinacci on the left, my DeBoise/Steed coat on the right.
I can see what you mean about the sleeves. I have no idea how mine are done.. although my sleeves are a bit fuller than either example. Another quite obvious difference is just how much rounder and more organic the shaping of the chest is on M's jacket. It looks much more three dimensional than the Steed example, but that could be due in part to the added waist suppression.

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by HitMan009

From my perspective, this coat style doesn't work for your body type.

To each his own, but I find M's overall look and stylistic aesthetic elegant, and well worth his investment.

- B

 

[teddieriley]

Originally Posted by HitMan009

The reason for shapes, silhouettes etc is to bring someone to look as close as possible to the ideal form of a man.

What is your ideal form of a man?

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by iammatt

Another quite obvious difference is just how much rounder and more organic the shaping of the chest is on M's jacket. It looks much more three dimensional than the Steed example.

My coat is in a very heavy flannel, and I was going for something more cardigan-like in this commission. There are no front darts, for example...but it's more shaped than a sack. The fabric also sucks light like crazy, so not a lot of countour is obvious. That's one of the reasons that I orginally planned to take a photo of one of my tweed coats, since patterning would show shaping more similar to M's coat.

The chest shaping on M's coat is really great. Frankly, I think it should be reiterated that while there have been many comments and responses about M's stature, and what he should or shouldn't do about it sartorially, he has a chest to waist drop that normally requires a lot of gym rat work in a person of larger physique. His coat does show that off in a nice way, and I do not think one could get there so successfully unless it was a carefully made bespoke product.

- B

 

[Eustace Tilley]

Originally Posted by teddieriley

What is your ideal form of a man?

Ahem

:

 

[HitMan009]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

To each his own, but I find M's overall look and stylistic aesthetic elegant, and well worth his investment. - B
I don't disagree. In fact, I love the fabric and shape of the jacket but it just doesn't work for him.

Originally Posted by teddieriley

What is your ideal form of a man?
It is not my ideal. Correct me if I am wrong, but there are certain proportions that just look right even to the untrained eye. Besides I am not the first to mention this "ideal form". It was common to the greeks and romans not to mention Manton, the demi god of this forum also mentioned it many moons ago. I am not here to bust on anyone. I wish I could experiment the way Matt has. I respect the man for it. But truth be told, I believe a different style would flatter the guy more then the one he currently has on.

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by HitMan009

From my perspective, this coat style doesn't work for your body type. Others have focused on each and every detail to point out why it needs work. I want to talk about the overall effect and elaborate a bit more on why this outfit is not flattering on you. The reason for shapes, silhouettes etc is to bring someone to look as close as possible to the ideal form of a man. I believe from reading your blog and seeing the pictures on you, you need a leaner style. Something with narrower lapels, a lower waist and less flaring with the skirt. Natural shoulders are nice and everyone should aim only for as much padding as necessary. I think you need stronger shoulders, not to give an illusion of height but to minimize the size of your head. Proportion and balance are the main reasons for getting bespoke IMHO. Also, people can correct me but looking at your pics, I don't see you having big shoulders and a big chest. Your features are rounder then squarish so you need clothes that would bring out the latter. You can wear this coat when you get older and attain more character to your face... ie, an older looking face.

Style is not style if the look doesn't work for you.

Thanks for your forthrightness. But we clearly disagree on core principles. As I've stated before, I overtly reject the notion of making myself look more 'ideal' (whatever that means). Perhaps this works with some, but: (1) my features are severely eccentric, and (2) my heart wouldn't be in it. I rather like the quirkiness of my proportions. In short (pun intended), if you're looking for tailoring that suggests an 'ideal' shape, I'll be the first to say that my clothes would be the worst example.

Beyond that, there are a couple of things you say that I think are just plain wrong. First, I'm not sure by what standard you would say the skirt of this jacket is flared--I can't see how it could be any less flared, actually. Second, I'd be the absolute worst candidate for heavily padded, structured shoulders. As it is, my shoulders are extremely square. They are also very wide, and I am overall very short. Big, padded shoulders would more than likely make me look like a miniature linebacker.

 

[dopey]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

. . .. Big, padded shoulders would more than likely make me look like a miniature linebacker.
Then there is always this if law is not to your liking:

 

[HitMan009]

To each his own. Again, nothing personal, just a matter of taste and opinion. Other then the arms being just slightly big around the tricep area, I love the jacket and the cloth.

 

[TIEALIGN]

Thanks for sharing some additional pics...The shirt is amazing...I especially like the detail along the edge of the yoke.

 

[A Y]

Originally Posted by iammatt

Another quite obvious difference is just how much rounder and more organic the shaping of the chest is on M's jacket. It looks much more three dimensional than the Steed example, but that could be due in part to the added waist suppression.

I agree with this, based on comparing my draped coat to yours. The drape is carried very differently and in different places on a Rubinacci than an English drape coat.

--Andre

 

[Manton]

I just read the comments. ROFLMAO. The guy who said that the coat needs to be shortened by 1.5" must think Matt is a chick.

 

[Lel]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

You know, in the past, I have tried to mask my height. I learned two things: (1) it never works, and (2) there's nothing wrong with being short in the first place (I am short, after all). I am very happy that you've all taken the time to consider and analyze my pictures (that's why I posted them, after all!), but I strongly disagree with efforts to make the body look like something it isn't. I know this brings us back to an old debate. But you must consider the fact that I am not merely somewhat short, but very short. Moreover, I have extremely bold features (big head, big shoulders, big chest, narrow waist, short legs). These things cannot be tailored away--not should they, necessarily.

Keep in mind, the short man in the photos is short (only 5'4"!). The question to me isn't whether I can look 5'6" or 5'7", but if I can be as good looking at 5'4" as possible.

Ha no worries it's just something I noticed.

I'm also afraid that I worded myself wrongly.

I just think that the buttons are disproportionately spaced. That's the main point that I was getting at (but failed to achieve). The spacing should look the same on you as it does on someone a completely different height. But at best, this was an extremely minor detail that I notice and is probably more due to the camera than the 1/18th of an inch that buttons could use.