Black Tie Event Questions

[Pandawan]

Hello All,

I had some questions that I emailed Peter at BlackTieGuide.com several weeks ago, after finishing reading nearly every page his site. I never received a response and hope that I can find some answers here in the meantime (if he ever does respond). Please ignore any "you"s that I have left here as I copied and pasted from the email I sent.

"I have a black tie event coming up in January and plan to wear a midnight blue tuxedo from Indochino. This is the first black tie event that I will be wearing this color of tuxedo. For previous black tie events I have always worn a traditional black tuxedo. I decided to change it up this time. Also, after reading this guide I've realized that I have made many mistakes in the past. Time to fix those as well.

I have some questions:

1. You mentioned that "Exposing your wrinkled shirt, suspenders and/or waist covering clasps is a sure way to downgrade the elegance of any formal occasion." Does this mean that one should never unbutton the jacket of a single-button jacket? Would it ever be appropriate to do so besides while seated? A few of the pictures on the site show individuals with their jacket unbuttoned.
2. I can't seem to find midnight blue silk socks! Do you know of a retailer?
3. Collars - I probably spent the most time reading and comparing photos on this area because I am confused about what to get and what is correct. After reading through what you've written, my understanding is that wing collars are not appropriate for black tie for a variety of reasons and should be limited to white tie. Yet, I see several pictures of you wearing wing collars with the uncovered bow tie band exposed. For the most part all of the pictures on the site refer to a turn-down collar. (For reference I have always been wearing a wing-collar, though now I feel like it was wrong?). I'm so confused what to do.
4. Plain front or bib? How do you decide? My current tuxedo shirt was pleated.
5. What to wear under the tuxedo shirt?
6. In your opinion, what is the way a pocket square should be worn?
7. From the previous black tie events that I have attended (only 3), I've only seen black tuxedos. There's always a few random business attire individuals, but they don't count. I don't think I've seen anything besides black shirt-studs, and silver cuff links. Either that or I didn't notice, so I'm not sure what kinds of customization work and are appropriate. I do want to add a bit of personal flair without sacrificing the integrity of black tie attire. Elegant but not flashy.
   1. Since I am wearing a midnight blue tuxedo, would a colored cummerbund such as burgundy or maroon be fitting with midnight blue? Or should I just stick with black?
      • What would be a good color if it were a vest instead?
   2. I would like to go beyond the normal silver cuff links or onyx cuff link stud set. What would be considering "going too far" and what would still be considered appropriately formal?
   3. That is the only amount of customization I am willing to do - Cummerbund and cufflinks/studs.
8. One of my pairs of patent leather oxfords has something like a wooden sole. Are you familiar with anything like this? This was the pair I first wore when I used to perform as a violinist.

"

I apologize for the amount of questions but I want to do this right this time.

Thanks

 

[Sam H]

I believe Ben silver sells midnight blue silk tuxedo socks but I also think they always seem to be out. Can't vouch for them either, I just remember seeing them online.

 

[Andy57]

Hello All,

I had some questions that I emailed Peter at BlackTieGuide.com several weeks ago, after finishing reading nearly every page his site. I never received a response and hope that I can find some answers here in the meantime (if he ever does respond). Please ignore any "you"s that I have left here as I copied and pasted from the email I sent.

"I have a black tie event coming up in January and plan to wear a midnight blue tuxedo from Indochino. This is the first black tie event that I will be wearing this color of tuxedo. For previous black tie events I have always worn a traditional black tuxedo. I decided to change it up this time. Also, after reading this guide I've realized that I have made many mistakes in the past. Time to fix those as well.

I have some questions:

1. You mentioned that "Exposing your wrinkled shirt, suspenders and/or waist covering clasps is a sure way to downgrade the elegance of any formal occasion." Does this mean that one should never unbutton the jacket of a single-button jacket? Would it ever be appropriate to do so besides while seated? A few of the pictures on the site show individuals with their jacket unbuttoned.
2. I can't seem to find midnight blue silk socks! Do you know of a retailer?
3. Collars - I probably spent the most time reading and comparing photos on this area because I am confused about what to get and what is correct. After reading through what you've written, my understanding is that wing collars are not appropriate for black tie for a variety of reasons and should be limited to white tie. Yet, I see several pictures of you wearing wing collars with the uncovered bow tie band exposed. For the most part all of the pictures on the site refer to a turn-down collar. (For reference I have always been wearing a wing-collar, though now I feel like it was wrong?). I'm so confused what to do.
4. Plain front or bib? How do you decide? My current tuxedo shirt was pleated.
5. What to wear under the tuxedo shirt?
6. In your opinion, what is the way a pocket square should be worn?
7. From the previous black tie events that I have attended (only 3), I've only seen black tuxedos. There's always a few random business attire individuals, but they don't count. I don't think I've seen anything besides black shirt-studs, and silver cuff links. Either that or I didn't notice, so I'm not sure what kinds of customization work and are appropriate. I do want to add a bit of personal flair without sacrificing the integrity of black tie attire. Elegant but not flashy.
   1. Since I am wearing a midnight blue tuxedo, would a colored cummerbund such as burgundy or maroon be fitting with midnight blue? Or should I just stick with black?
      • What would be a good color if it were a vest instead?
   2. I would like to go beyond the normal silver cuff links or onyx cuff link stud set. What would be considering "going too far" and what would still be considered appropriately formal?
   3. That is the only amount of customization I am willing to do - Cummerbund and cufflinks/studs.
8. One of my pairs of patent leather oxfords has something like a wooden sole. Are you familiar with anything like this? This was the pair I first wore when I used to perform as a violinist.

"

I apologize for the amount of questions but I want to do this right this time.

Thanks

Leaving aside the wisdom of going to Indochino...

If your jacket is single breasted, you need a waist covering of some kind. Either a cummerbund or a waistcoat. If your trousers are not high enough rise to wear with a waistcoat, a cummerbund is the safe choice. With a midnight blue jacket and trousers, midnight blue is the best choice. It's okay to unbutton your jacket while seated, but it should be buttoned while standing (this is true for all jackets). If your dinner jacket is double breasted you do not need a waist covering as a DB should never be unbuttoned. The bit about exposing your wrinkled shirt, etc, is a reference to that you never remove your dinner jacket. Ever.

Regarding collars, it is best to go with a turn-down collar. It's just easier. A wing collar has to be a stiff, starched, detachable collar or else it simply will collapse and it will look ridiculous. The only way to make it stiff enough is to make it detachable. In addition, if you have a wing collar, you must have a "sized" one-piece bow tie. No clips or fasteners must be visible. So don't do it unless you can do it right. In all cases, your tie must be black. It also ought to match the facings on your jacket (either grosgrain or satin). It's up to you if you prefer a plain-front, a Marcella, or a pleated shirt. Wear whatever you usually wear under a shirt, if you wear anything.

Your pocket square should be neatly folded.

Your studs should match your cufflinks. I have violated this rule on many occasions, but they ought to match. I prefer mother-of-pearl over onyx, but that's a preference. My current set is ivory enamel with a deep red ring, both links and cuffs. As long as you don't go too far, you can wear whatever links and studs you like, in my opinion.

I'm not familiar with patent shoes that have wooden soles. They don't sound comfortable.

 

[Pandawan]

Thanks for your input. As far as Indochino goes, I've purchased 3 suits from them before and all have turned out great. I have only had good experiences with them and I got a killer deal on the tuxedo so I thought I'd give it a shot.

I ended up getting a turn-down collar.

Any ideas about the shirt? Plain front vs bib?

Do you guys wear undershirts with the tuxedo shirt or nothing under? Even a white T-Shirt?

 

[Andy57]

Thanks for your input. As far as Indochino goes, I've purchased 3 suits from them before and all have turned out great. I have only had good experiences with them and I got a killer deal on the tuxedo so I thought I'd give it a shot.

I ended up getting a turn-down collar.

Any ideas about the shirt? Plain front vs bib?

Do you guys wear undershirts with the tuxedo shirt or nothing under? Even a white T-Shirt?

If by "bib" you mean a marcella-front shirt, then I like those for myself. All my tuxedo shirts are marcella front. I do not wear an undershirt.

 

[brax]



Leaving aside the wisdom of going to Indochino...

If your jacket is single breasted, you need a waist covering of some kind. Either a cummerbund or a waistcoat. If your trousers are not high enough rise to wear with a waistcoat, a cummerbund is the safe choice. With a midnight blue jacket and trousers, midnight blue is the best choice. It's okay to unbutton your jacket while seated, but it should be buttoned while standing (this is true for all jackets). If your dinner jacket is double breasted you do not need a waist covering as a DB should never be unbuttoned. The bit about exposing your wrinkled shirt, etc, is a reference to that you never remove your dinner jacket. Ever.

Regarding collars, it is best to go with a turn-down collar. It's just easier. A wing collar has to be a stiff, starched, detachable collar or else it simply will collapse and it will look ridiculous. The only way to make it stiff enough is to make it detachable. In addition, if you have a wing collar, you must have a "sized" one-piece bow tie. No clips or fasteners must be visible. So don't do it unless you can do it right. In all cases, your tie must be black. It also ought to match the facings on your jacket (either grosgrain or satin). It's up to you if you prefer a plain-front, a Marcella, or a pleated shirt. Wear whatever you usually wear under a shirt, if you wear anything.

Your pocket square should be neatly folded.

Your studs should match your cufflinks. I have violated this rule on many occasions, but they ought to match. I prefer mother-of-pearl over onyx, but that's a preference. My current set is ivory enamel with a deep red ring, both links and cuffs. As long as you don't go too far, you can wear whatever links and studs you like, in my opinion.

I'm not familiar with patent shoes that have wooden soles. They don't sound comfortable.

I agree with Andy's advice except for two small quibbles. If you've folowed his advice of wearing a waistcoat or a cummerbund (which you must do), then I would not hesitate wearing your jacket unbuttoned.
As for a pocket square, I would not fold it. Dinner jacket events are social engagements and I'd wear the pocket square with a bit of nonchalance, stuffed in the pocket and then forgotten.

 

[Andy57]

I agree with Andy's advice except for two small quibbles.

I have no problem with either quibble.

 

[Caustic Man]

I stop in only to recommend listening to everything @Andy57 says. But if you don't, don't worry about it too much and try to have fun.

 

[bdavro23]

One more minor quibble to go with Andy's excellent advice: I would match your cummerbund to the facings on your jacket and your bow tie. If they are black, so too should your cummerbund be, and likewise if the facings are midnight blue.

Have a great time.

 

[GBR]

...

Hello All,

I had some questions that I emailed Peter at BlackTieGuide.com several weeks ago, after finishing reading nearly every page his site. I never received a response and hope that I can find some answers here in the meantime (if he ever does respond). Please ignore any "you"s that I have left here as I copied and pasted from the email I sent.

"I have a black tie event coming up in January and plan to wear a midnight blue tuxedo from Indochino. This is the first black tie event that I will be wearing this color of tuxedo. For previous black tie events I have always worn a traditional black tuxedo. I decided to change it up this time. Also, after reading this guide I've realized that I have made many mistakes in the past. Time to fix those as well.


I have some questions:


As ever with these things trying to codify anything connected with clothes tends to undue prominence to points which really should not be so honoured as they are any of irrelevant in reality, personal opinion, obscure or else only even thought about by cognoscenti in the subject - they are not exactly the man in the street.

So

You mentioned that "Exposing your wrinkled shirt, suspenders and/or waist covering clasps is a sure way to downgrade the elegance of any formal occasion." Does this mean that one should never unbutton the jacket of a single-button jacket? Would it ever be appropriate to do so besides while seated? A few of the pictures on the site show individuals with their jacket unbuttoned.

Cummerbund or waist coat, but don't worry too much, by the time the coffee arrives many will have removed their coats to combat the stifling heat at many functions.

I can't seem to find midnight blue silk socks! Do you know of a retailer?

Purely nice to have and only worn by the pretentious - unless you plan to take your shoes off and ask the assembly to look at your footwear; forget them

Collars - I probably spent the most time reading and comparing photos on this area because I am confused about what to get and what is correct. After reading through what you've written, my understanding is that wing collars are not appropriate for black tie for a variety of reasons and should be limited to white tie. Yet, I see several pictures of you wearing wing collars with the uncovered bow tie band exposed. For the most part all of the pictures on the site refer to a turn-down collar. (For reference I have always been wearing a wing-collar, though now I feel like it was wrong?). I'm so confused what to do.

Buy whichever you prefer, there is no rule despite those who need a prop to justify their selection of clothes

Plain front or bib? How do you decide? My current tuxedo shirt was pleated.

Nothing wrong with that, there are various styles. Some might be more fashionable as manufacturers try to force people to buy new ones each but that is as far as it goes. Many older people have bought high quality shirts for occasional use and rightly wear them for many years.

What to wear under the tuxedo shirt?

Really? To get down to that minutiae is singular nonsense: I would say nothing because I think vests to be utterly unnecessary but you may differ

In your opinion, what is the way a pocket square should be worn?

White ones relatively formally but at many functions more informality is appropriate and so discretely coloured bow ties are acceptable. In the instances a paisley square worn more flamboyantly is fine.

From the previous black tie events that I have attended (only 3), I've only seen black tuxedos. There's always a few random business attire individuals, but they don't count. I don't think I've seen anything besides black shirt-studs, and silver cuff links. Either that or I didn't notice, so I'm not sure what kinds of customization work and are appropriate. I do want to add a bit of personal flair without sacrificing the integrity of black tie attire. Elegant but not flashy.

As you will once again. This should reflect your character and so silver, gold or any other type of cuff links is fine at most functions. Some many may well wear a waist coat be it white or a rich paisley silk example with a fine watch chain prominent. Again such flamboyance is very welcome and avoid simply looking like a clone of the men sitting to your right and left at table.


Since I am wearing a midnight blue tuxedo, would a colored cummerbund such as burgundy or maroon be fitting with midnight blue? Or should I just stick with black?

Any would be fine, coloured probably better at most functions. If you were Irish a green one might be a good selection. I have see Scotsmen who elect not to wear Highland evening dress were a tartan version.

Since I am wearing a midnight blue tuxedo, would a colored cummerbund such as burgundy or maroon be fitting with midnight blue? Or should I just stick with black?

As above

I would like to go beyond the normal silver cuff links or onyx cuff link stud set. What would be considering "going too far" and what would still be considered appropriately formal?
That is the only amount of customization I am willing to do - Cummerbund and cufflinks/studs.
Your choice entirely

One of my pairs of patent leather oxfords has something like a wooden sole. Are you familiar with anything like this? This was the pair I first wore when I used to perform as a violinist.

It will be leather, I very much doubt wood. We'll forgive you for scraping away at a fiddle in public!