Black tie advice

[Hooty sapperticker]

Good day Gentlemen,

I'm brand spanking new here so apologies if i've sidestepped any protocol by not submitting an introductory post.

I've been invited to a Black tie 'supper & dance' at a somewhat exclusive and i believe prestigeous London tennis club.

Now, i'm not generally in the habit of either being invited to or attending black tie affairs and was wondering these days if the boundaries of what is acceptable have widened somewhat. At 39 i'll quite possibly be one of the younger ones there but having, I believe, been perceived as somewhat of a non conformist dresser i'm reluctant to wear the standard tux, wing collar, bow tie, cummerband, patent shoe combo.

I don't want to have to hire a tux as i'm very particular about the cut/fit of what I wear.

Also not being blessed with the healthiest of bank balances i'm somewhat reluctant to splash out on something expensive i'll only get to wear maybe a handful of times.

In the past, when i've gone to anything that's asked for black tie, i've worn the following: nearly black, wool single breasted peak lapel suit, very nipped in at the waist, flat front trousers, well polished black contemporary dress (?) shoes, crisp white high stand, long collared slim fit BD shirt, black silk knitted tie. Silver tie slide & cuff-links. Perhaps a bit more rat packy than black tie.

As this tennis club is probably very traditional, i'm not sure if this will be acceptable. I've no interest in becoming a member, but as i've been invited by my Uncle and aunt who are quite senior members I believe I should respect their position and not embarrass them by any wayward dressing but still retain my individuality and what I hope is flair.

Was toying with the idea of buying a relatively cheap but well styled interpretation of a dinner suit from, say, Zara and teaming that with a decent white shirt & black cravat.

Any thoughts/comments/advice.

Apologies for this somewhat rambling 1st post

 

[Sator]

Out of curiosity may I ask if you are American? Or have the British become so americanised that they will:

1. Call a dinner jacket a "tux"
2. Wear button down shirts as evening dress
3. Call double breasted styled lapels "peak lapels"

And a knitted long tie with evening dress?

It sounds like AmJack evening dress to me

 

[Golf_Nerd]

Originally Posted by Hooty sapperticker

As this tennis club is probably very traditional, i'm not sure if this will be acceptable. I've no interest in becoming a member, but as i've been invited by my Uncle and aunt who are quite senior members I believe I should respect their position and not embarrass them ...

Any thoughts/comments/advice.

Apologies for this somewhat rambling 1st post

Here is my advice:

1. Check the tennis club homepage for pictures of that kind of event.

2. Speak to your uncle and your aunt about it. They will support you.

3. get some more information from tennis club members you know

To get it fixed you need the information how it is handed. From club to club it is different.

Don't apologize rambling 1st post. Get a proper introduction done!

 

[Hooty sapperticker]

I'm British.

to answer your delightful questions:

1- i'm assuming the majority of members on here are American and referred to it as a 'tux' to avoid any confusion. Correct me if i'm wrong but, from what I understand, the term Tuxedo when referring to a dinner jacket is recognised worldwide whether one is American or otherwise.

2- As I state, I have had no occasion in the past to wear formal evening dress so my experience and knowledge on these matters is very limited. Working in the media industry, any evening events/awards ceremonies I have attended that request Black Tie are generally considered to be relaxed affairs and some creativity or deviation from the rules is perfectly accepted

3- Curious to know what they should be called. I've always heard them referred to as peaked.

Also curious to know what AmJack is too

 

[Sator]

Pardon for any offense caused and - of course - welcome to the forum.

I guess the majority here are staunch traditionalists when it comes to dress - especially so with evening dress. Indeed, some members from the East Coast of the US will also favour the British English terms "dinner jacket" over the American English term "Tuxedo" ("tux" being a rather vulgar American contraction of that). Of course, the dinner jacket hailed from England but was first worn in the US by members of the Tuxedo Club in New York.

Being traditionalists, I am afraid you will find innumerable threads here ridiculing the poor tastes of celebrity "L.A. black tie". Long ties are something we all find particularly reprehensible. Next on the list of pet hates include bow ties in any other colour than black.

The British English term is double breasted styled lapels. "Peak lapels" and "notch lapels" are terms used more in American English. AmJack is a short for American jackass - think of the worst negative stereotype of an American tourist you can think of. L.A. black tie is the evening dress version of that.

 

[Hooty sapperticker]

No offence taken, and thankyou for taking the time to respond. Your input is appreciated.

Just to clarify- and as far as you're concerned, any deviation from the traditional understanding of Black Tie is considered unacceptable?

Being a non-traditionalist I find that a tad limiting but don't wish to cause offence to my hosts by deviating from it.

Looks like i'll have to either..
a) rent a very badly fitting dinner jacket and ensemble from a supplier
b) scour vintage shops for a suitable outfit
c) go with my usual but pass myself off as either a hollywood actor, or hired help.

BTW my intended suit was very similar in shape to your 1st image but without satin to the lapels. Still no good?

Do any non- traditionalists have any views they'd care to make?

 

[gumercindo]

Originally Posted by Hooty sapperticker

Good day Gentlemen,

I'm brand spanking new here so apologies if i've sidestepped any protocol by not submitting an introductory post.

I've been invited to a Black tie 'supper & dance' at a somewhat exclusive and i believe prestigeous London tennis club.

Now, i'm not generally in the habit of either being invited to or attending black tie affairs and was wondering these days if the boundaries of what is acceptable have widened somewhat. At 39 i'll quite possibly be one of the younger ones there but having, I believe, been perceived as somewhat of a non conformist dresser i'm reluctant to wear the standard tux, wing collar, bow tie, cummerband, patent shoe combo.

I don't want to have to hire a tux as i'm very particular about the cut/fit of what I wear.

Also not being blessed with the healthiest of bank balances i'm somewhat reluctant to splash out on something expensive i'll only get to wear maybe a handful of times.

In the past, when i've gone to anything that's asked for black tie, i've worn the following: nearly black, wool single breasted peak lapel suit, very nipped in at the waist, flat front trousers, well polished black contemporary dress (?) shoes, crisp white high stand, long collared slim fit BD shirt, black silk knitted tie. Silver tie slide & cuff-links. Perhaps a bit more rat packy than black tie.

As this tennis club is probably very traditional, i'm not sure if this will be acceptable. I've no interest in becoming a member, but as i've been invited by my Uncle and aunt who are quite senior members I believe I should respect their position and not embarrass them by any wayward dressing but still retain my individuality and what I hope is flair.

Was toying with the idea of buying a relatively cheap but well styled interpretation of a dinner suit from, say, Zara and teaming that with a decent white shirt & black cravat.

Any thoughts/comments/advice.

Apologies for this somewhat rambling 1st post

You're 39 and bank balance or not, do your best to buy a tux. What's your budget? You can get a real solid Isaia tux for ~ $400-500 on ebay. I would bypass the black suit look and stick to traditional black tie wear.

 

[zalb916]

This is not the appropriate time or place to be non-traditionalist. Your aunt and uncle have graciously invited you to a particular type of event. You risk offending both their friends and them by not acting appropriately, which, in this instance, would be shunning traditional black tie. If you don't want to conform, then politely decline the invitation. Otherwise, suck it up, and either buy or rent the proper attire. It would be an insult to your aunt and uncle to do otherwise.

 

[Sator]

In very informal social circles you could get away with a black single breasted lounge suit with double breasted style lapels though in a very traditional English club, I would counsel against it. If you do decide to wear it nonetheless I would strongly suggest getting a black self-tie bow tie, a dinner shirt, and a cummerbund to go with it to try to make it as close to proper dinner dress as possible. A pair of black Oxford shoes without any brogueing - preferably plain toed, would be the best option for footwear if you have no opera pumps or patent leather Oxfords at hand. Here are my brand new pair of Edward Green opera pumps which arrived this week straight from Northampton (albeit with a brief detour through Hawaii):

 

[culverwood]

Golf Nerd gave good advice. Check with the club, ask your uncle or aunt. You may be fine as you are.

I have to say at 39 you are reaching the end of being able to pull off the "fashionable" casual black tie rig and its time you got a proper one. If price is a problem vintage is the way to go and charity shops may be worth a look otherwise second hand shops. I do not think hiring or a cheap new suit is the way to go.

I would prefer a black long tie to your cravat idea in any case.

 

[Hooty sapperticker]

Thanks for all your input Gents. Much appreciated.

Originally Posted by culverwood

I have to say at 39 you are reaching the end of being able to pull off the "fashionable" casual black tie rig.
Ouch

 

[Orsini]

Originally Posted by Hooty sapperticker

...I've been invited to a Black tie 'supper & dance' at a somewhat exclusive and i believe prestigeous London tennis club...i've been invited by my Uncle and aunt who are quite senior members...
The others have all given good advice. This sounds like an opportunity for an introduction into social circles of a little higher tone... It would behoove you to exploit this opportunity to the maximum. To avoid embarrassing your family and as simple good manners you must comply with the dress code set out by the hostess. Buy the nicest OTR peak or shawl tuxedo you can reasonably afford and have it well fitted by a professional tailor with at least two fittings. Select all the accessories carefully. This site tells what to do: http://www.blacktieguide.com/index.html Then go to the party and schmooze like crazy!

 

[Cuff Link]

I may be way off base here but I suggest you rent the tux (hire the dinner jacket). Most rental places will take the time to properly tailor it for you, if you persist. You wear one so infrequently that a purchase seems to be a waste of money.

Look at it this way, when clubs say "black tie" rather than "black tie optional," they mean it. You will fit in and be more comfortable in the proper dress.


Cuff

 

[Golf_Nerd]

Originally Posted by Orsini

The others have all given good advice.

Select all the accessories carefully.

This site tells what to do: http://www.blacktieguide.com/index.html

Then go to the party and schmooze like crazy!

Thanks for the link!

Yes, and schmooze like crazy!