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Black Shirt with Black Suit. I have to get this off my chest.

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by martinezj2567, Apr 8, 2012.

  1. Profacio

    Profacio Well-Known Member

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    When it doubt, assume yes and move on.
     
  2. martinezj2567

    martinezj2567 Well-Known Member

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    Here's the thing, I know that I may not have the technical or style know-how like many people on this forum. I came here to hear what people had to share and take from those opinions information that I find valid. Maybe it's my egregious sense of style compared to everyone else here, I'm not sure. It seems like there is a consistent theme that black on black is immature and therefore, disregarded. As I'm sure you've all seen, there have been other people/celebrities to try the style and it had worked. Yes I get how George Clooney may be the only one and I am NOT George Clooney, but why only them? I guess what I'm asking is where does this hate for black on black come from? Rather than being dismissive and saying highschool/troll/immature, respond in more technical terms I suppose. Why can't it work? Why have people still tried if it's such a fashion no-no even beyond the age of high school? I'm more than willing to listen and if need be put in some change in the outfit if the argument is valid, I enjoy hearing differing opinions.
     
  3. F. Corbera

    F. Corbera Senior member

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    If you would let us enjoy a photograph of your "black on black" ensemble, I am sure that your desire to enjoy differing opinions about it will come true.

    Who's George Clooney?
     
  4. Needsmoreshoes

    Needsmoreshoes Senior member

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    Here's a story about why it can't work:

    Was sitting in a bar with a few friends after a formal event. One of my friends was wearing a black shirt and black suit while the rest of us were in more SF accepted combinations (I hope). Myself in a grey Prince of Wales check suit, light blue oxford shirt and burgundy wool knit tie). My all-black-wearing friend picked up our now empty glasses and headed to the bar to get some more drinks. Whilst carrying these empty glasses a young guy lightly grabbed his cuff and politely ordered some food for himself and his table, it was not until interrupted by my all-black-clad friend that he became aware he was a customer and not a waiter simply clearing tables.

    If you are mistaken for barstaff in an outfit you deemed appropriate for a formal event you have not dressed correctly!

    Also: I'm going to quote my favourite style blogger 'Nice Try, Bro' in explaining why people still dress that way beyond high school - "Because most people are clueless troglodytes"

    If you want some good inspiration for great suiting combinations check out here: http://ethandesu.tumblr.com/
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
  5. F. Corbera

    F. Corbera Senior member

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    I have read similar cautionary stories on AAAC, sometimes with the phrase "tally-ho!" in it.

    The immortal iDreaded-Mistaken-for-a-Waiter Tale.
     
  6. CJG_NYC

    CJG_NYC Senior member

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    [​IMG]

    Jokes aside -- I'd like to hear some real "technical" reasons for why black on black doesnt work, but I'm just not sure theres a "technical" reason other than "it just doesnt." That said, I personally don't like black on black for no other reason than that it conjures up images of bad Halloween costumes and frat boys. (If I absolutely had to wear it, I'd be doing the plain black suit, black shirt, black tie or dark gray tie route).

    Sure, Clooney or Timberlake or Pitt or the like can "pull it off" but even then I dont love it for formal occasions.

    Gyllenhaal makes this look fairly good:
    [​IMG]

    But, I see that as a "casual cool" look - not at all formal, and not even trying to be formal.

    I used to never really be a fan of a black button down shirt in general (owned one and threw it away when I realized the only guys I knew wearing it were one or two fist pumps away from their own reality show), however, I do really like this Bradley Cooper look:
    [​IMG]

    I suppose this is a lot better for formal occasions (black suit with a dark gray shirt) but again theres that "confidence" factor that others listed above:
    [​IMG]

    But still, I think (and I can't give a "technical" reason for why) that for a formal occasion -- one where a black suit is ideal -- you can't beat this type of look:
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Needsmoreshoes

    Needsmoreshoes Senior member

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    You can't use three Hollywood sex symbols (...and Robert Pattinson) to argue a fashion faux pas!

    In my opinion there is no situation you think a black shirt would be ideal that a dark navy shirt wouldn't look infinitely better (See Bradley Cooper's blazer). I can't really give you a scientific reason, it's just seen as slightly neanderthallic, puerile and unimaginative. That aside, being mistaken for barstaff would be enough reason for me...

    Had any further thoughts on what you're considering wearing?
     
  8. CJG_NYC

    CJG_NYC Senior member

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    Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, but I was not using those images to argue that it is not a fashion faux pas - because I think it is a fashion faux pas. The only reason I used hollywood "sex symbols" is because the OP cited the fact that Clooney pulls off the look. But, Clooney pulls off the look because he's Clooney, not because its a good look. My other point was that Gyllenhaal's look is "okay" because (aside from the fact that he's a hollywood sex symbol) it is not being looked at as serious/formal. As for Cooper -- the only reason I included him was to say that I can appreciate a black shirt being used in that context, but other than that I stick with my original assessment of why I threw out the black button down I owned. (And yes, a different color shirt would work better in Cooper's look -- even white -- but I'm not a fan of dark navy shirts either honestly).

    But, dont mistake any of what I'm saying for "I would do it" -- because I wouldnt, most likely (you know, unless I become dashingly handsome, rich, and famous over night).

    Maybe the point of my post was lost in the midst of those pics -- my point was that I don't like the look, I dont think theres a "technical" answer as to why, and that sure some GQ'ers pull it off but thats either because they are: a) GQ'ers with confidence; or b) not wearing it formally.

    Edited to add: I don't think the look is good even casually, unless you've got a ton of confidence or you're planning to hit some club (though, my sense is that wearing a suit to a club, period, is kinda weird).
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
  9. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    There are definitely clubs for which wearing a suit would not be weird. Even so, I think medium gray with black shirt is better if you are set on wearing a black shirt. I guess one "technical" reason it doesn't work is that you need some contrast in the outfit to define the lines and break up what would be a flat appearance. If you do this by having a light tie in the middle of a black suit and black shirt, it just looks like a floating tie. Which is not really that cool. Even the non-black monochrome looks - which are almost as difficult to look good - only succeed when they have contrasts in texture.
     
  10. I am DIL

    I am DIL Senior member

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    I think that if there is this much deliberation over whether it is worth doing or not, It's probably not worth doing.
     
  11. Quadcammer

    Quadcammer Senior member

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    heres the story.

    those celebrities have the confidence to wear this shit (and it is shit), including converse or sneakers with suits.

    You do not have this confidence, because if you did, you wouldn't be asking us about it, you would just do it and not give a fuck.

    stop trying to reinvent the wheel here.

    Wear the black suit, with a white FC shirt, and maybe a nice grey (read not shiny silver) tie.

    White pocket square

    tiebar if you so desire

    shine the shoes.

    done. If this all fits, you will look great.
     
  12. plei89

    plei89 Senior member

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    This thread is useless without pics! :nodding:
     
  13. I am DIL

    I am DIL Senior member

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  14. ballmouse

    ballmouse Senior member

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    While you do see celebrities use the all-black look, they look much better with the black suit + white shirt ensemble.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
  15. PhiPsi32

    PhiPsi32 Senior member

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    For the record, not trolling, just trying to make the best accommodation within the OP's specifications.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
  16. I am DIL

    I am DIL Senior member

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    Fair enough.
     
  17. martinezj2567

    martinezj2567 Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate all this constructive feedback, it's good to hear all this especially considering I haven't put pictures up. I will very soon. Waiting on my tailor.

    Needsmoreshoes -
    That has been a consistent theme, the "wait staff" mistake. It's something I've been taking to heart throughout this. Something I've found consistent in all the pics even those with celebrities is that they are wearing it casually or going out to a club, not to anything formal for the most part.


    Needsmoreshoes -
    I'm starting to lean off the black shirt a bit and checking out other ideas. I do not know the technical term for this kind of shirt, but it's Donald Trump and the collar and cuffs are white while the shirt is of a different color (right now grey or light blue), those are the other ideas I'm entertaining as of current.


    CJG_NYC -
    Those pictures were the most helpful to put the whole idea of black on black in perspective, it's clear that nearly all of those were is casual/informal settings regardless. I beginning to understand the opposite side of the story from all this and why it may not be the preferred choice. It makes sense on the simple point that it is just unimaginative on that sole purpose alone.


    Unbelragazzo -
    I like this the most, it makes sense to throw in contrast and prevent a floating tie appearance. I had never considered how the tie would stand out (or float) in this particular situation. I'm slowly starting to get a better comprehension of the necessity of contrast in the very least. It would just always seem that the black on black was a very strong proponent because it was slimming and seemed powerful, at least to me.

    Quadcammer -
    Eloquent, but accurate. I've always tried to break into it on my own and I figure to ask for a hand in it, so yeah the confidence in the suit is a little lacking and that's why I came here. I do not know what you mean by FC. As I said before, I'm looking at these Donald Trump shirts that have a white collar and cuffs while the shirt is a different color. I was thinking if I was going to go along with that, then I would have a white PS and silver cuff links and tie bar. Should I go through with a boutonniere or is that overdoing it?

    Plei89 -
    I will be placing them up soon!


    Also, where the hell do I find nice cuff links and tie bar? I don't have the largest budget so I've been mainly going through retail, but I have found nothing I like at all.

    And why is my message held back in moderation because I'm new? It's impossible to post when I want to.
     
  18. PhiPsi32

    PhiPsi32 Senior member

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  19. Ianiceman

    Ianiceman Senior member

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    FC = French cuff shirt.

    Those Donald Trump shirts you are on about are called 'contrast collar shirts'. In the interests of full disclosure I will admit that I have never owned one cos I have never liked them - who wants to dress like a bank manager? Or Donald Trump? Or Hugh Hefner?

    Anyway I would still put them I'm the daytime business formal category, so if you pair a short like that with your pins tripe suit you will look more like you are off to interview for a CPA position than escort your sweetheart to a college party.
     
  20. martinezj2567

    martinezj2567 Well-Known Member

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    Then, for an evening formal party for college kids, what would be the shirt of your suggestion?
     

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