Better Days ...

[DocHolliday]

Andrew Portnoy, you have a moral obligation to return to this forum and convince me to spend ridiculous sums on beautiful shoes. Do it for the shoes, man.

 

[horton]

LA Guy said it best.

Andrew, besides his informative posts, has always made himself available to answer questions via PM and never made me feel stupid -- no matter how stupid my questions were.

 

[Bradford]

I dislike the aspersions that are being cast at Andrew Harris. Having been here since the beginning, I have been appreciative of the knowledge the AHarris has shared with us and never felt that his motive was simply to sell shoes.

Additionally, Andrew Portnoy has made valuable contributions to this fora throughout his tenure.

I would be sorry to see either leave - especially over a disagreement as to how much is being charged for shoes that most of us will never buy in the first place.

This place is starting to feel like AAAC.

 

[Fritz]

I also want aportnoy back. Seems like a nice guy. And we haven't seen the "family portrait" of his shoes yet. I was looking forward to that.

 

[shoefan]

I must say that I am surprised that anyone would take such umbrage at the goings on in the Vass thread. What was it specifically that would motivate Andrew Portnoy to abandon this forum?

I have just re-read the entire thread. Aside from the arguably intemperate comments of Steve B., where's the offense? Surely reasonable people can have differing points of view and discuss/debate an issue. I saw no ad hominem attacks, just very different positions on the topic at hand.

I have enjoyed Andrew's posts, and I appreciate his willingness to bring the German source for Vass to our attention. But, to abandon the forum based on what I've read, I just don't understand. I hope Andrew will stay (just as I hope the vast majority of participants will). If not, then he departs with my best wishes for future success and attainment of shoe nirvana.

 

[Baron]

Originally Posted by LA Guy

One of the great things about the forum is the community atmosphere here. Both Andrews (Portnoy and Harris) have been invaluable members of the forum.

I think that recent problems with some rather insidious trolls have put everyone on edge. The Vass USA vs. Globalization fiasco certainly hasn't helped matters any. I've had to do more moderation in the last couple of weeks since the Days of Ernest.

Finally, let's remember that just because some members are involved in the clothing industry doesn't mean that they have an ulterior motive for their participation on the forum. Andrew Harris, the most obvious example, has made invaluable posts to the forum. I do not begrudge (obvously) Andrew Portnoy for bringing a deal to the forum's attention. However, it is hardly fair to cast aspersions on Gabor Halmos for protecting his livelihood. That is just sour grapes. Like I wrote in another thread, I hate the fact that there is a North American distributor for Nudie jeans that puts my favorite models out of my price range. On the other hand, I understand that the dude is just having to make a living, and I don't begrudge that.

Let's all just take a deep breath and everyone collect their tempers, okay?

Fok.


I haven't said a word about this whole mess, but I'd say that this perspective sums up my feelings perfectly. The first time I saw the post on the German retailer, I was almost certain that leak in the distribution channel would be plugged sooner or later. Aportnoy was trying to do most of us a good turn in revealing the source, but it was no surprise nor injustice when Vass tightened distribution.

Finally, for a bunch of men gathered to talk about fine clothing, tailoring, formal dress and decorum, we certainly can be a prissy, bitchy bunch. Maybe we need to start acting like "men," whatever that means.

 

[lutfa]

you better get your ass back now and mean now. why i awta!

 

[skalogre]

Originally Posted by Baron

...Finally, for a bunch of men gathered to talk about fine clothing, tailoring, formal dress and decorum, we certainly can be a prissy, bitchy bunch. Maybe we need to start acting like "men," whatever that means.

I think we have already tried that - Manly Things - I doubt it worked

 

[GreyFlannelMan]

aportnoy's shoe Appreciation has inspired me to upgrade my own collection. I've really seen a range of beautiful, well-made shoes, and I'll miss that. Unless he starts posting on the new board for refugees from the more established fora.

 

[whoopee]

He still posts at AA.

 

[sysdoc]

Originally Posted by Brian SD

I would be very said if aportnoy did in fact leave for good. Sysdoc, however, I think you should consider some of your comments (which to my reading, contain some subtle and some not-so-subtle jabs). It's not going to help the situation to keep bickering about the Vass shoes thread and particularly, A Harris, who has made plenty of posts out of philanthropy that were not at all related to Vass. I agree that the state of the forum has declined more or less over time (while my little forum just seems to get better and better

). I think the solution is not more moderation but to just step back, take things less seriously and try to remain friendly with people. And I would like to say, as a moderator (being completely hypocritical for a moment), that the jabs at the offender with the blabbermouth comment truly need to end. If you feel yourself needing to spit out slanderous comments (however witty and subtle they may be), sit on your hands please.
I was afraid to read the responses to my posting and only dared to go as far as yours, Brian. I'm not sure if I want to read further as I prefer to remain cool blooded and good mooded. I would like to point out however, that I am in no way claiming that I am a saint. In fact I am light years from it. I have made unfounded snide or snappy remarks that I deeply regret and I cannot even promise that I won't fall in my own trap again. However, I am trying to counter my 'bad behavior' with posts that are useful for everyone in the forum. As far as I am concerned that's all I can do. Since the SF re-launch I've found very little desire to take time and make major postings, as the conduct of some members took away every enthusiasm I might have had. Maybe some of you remember my visit to Janne Melkersson and the shoe we made together. I took 10 GB of pictures ... for the style forum. That's three months ago now. I've got three JLs here that are made on the new 1105 last and there's plenty more ... I said that I have my own opinions about certain things and that I will not make them public. The Vass thingie was unfortunately the reason that a very popular SF member got so fed up with SF that he felt forced to leave. I am not at all jabbing at Steve, because I can very well imagine how this famous lapse happened. Besides, I know how damn hard it is to find good and dedicated forum moderators. J is a lucky motherf***** for the bunch he's got here and that includes Steve. I have no idea if you get compensated for your job, but I would be surprised if you did. I think you guys do a great job. Nonetheless we've got to get back to a climate where those members feel welcome, who are willing to put a substantial degree of energy in their posts. Once they are all pissed off and gone, SF will be but an empty shell with very little value for anyone. Once again, these are just my 2 cents worth. Fell free to rip it apart.

 

[billiebob]

Most of the value here is produced by a small minority of registered members. Without these guys, and the laudable efforts of our moderators, this forum would just degenerate to...hell I don't want to get specific, but there are several message boards run by major publishers devoted to men's clothes that are just impossible to wade through. Witty comments are fun on any message board, but it's the fabulous content that sets this place apart.

It takes exceptional people to put the kind of energy it takes to create posts really worth something. It's common for these people to have strong wills and personalities, and those who put the most effort into the forum are best positioned to get offended and leave. That's the sad part.

I was shocked at some of the posts in the Vass thread, but it seemed to come from a continuum of negativity that's been building since the forum came back online.

Just wanted to share these dismaying thoughts. I don't have much of a solution, but I'm sure this place is headed south if people don't chill the f*** out and stop reveling in their clever put-downs.

The enthusiasm SF has cultivated in my formerly intimidating task of figuring out what to wear in civilized envionments is something I'll value for a while, even if everyone I know thinks I'm totally insane to become interested in the relative merits of Borrelli vs. Barba shirts or polishing shoes from makers they've never heard of more than twice a year.

 

[A Harris]

a few days ago:

I, also, have benefited from Andrew H's postings long before I joined SF (or AA for that matter) or made my own first posting. Andrew is highly welcome in both fora and I couldn't possibly see why this should change due to his side job as Vass USA represantative for the West Coast.

It is also true that Andrew Harris has made tons of postings that were a huge help for the forum members while not providing any financial benefit to Andrew. He was and still is one of the few really valuable sources of information in both fora and it would be very unfortunate to lose him.

today:

Now I have got my very own opinion on Vass shoe quality, Vass USA ... and the personal or professional integrity of Andrew Harris and Gabor Halmos. I have not made them public, because I know that my comments can be far too caustic for many of the disagreeing members to digest...

However, may I ask everybody to spend a little thought on the actual value of certain contributions to SF? I see that the threads/postings of Andrew Harris and partly also of Gabor Halmos are considered "hard work" which deserve them compensation, because they introduced (out of pure philanthropy?) the realm of Vass shoes to the forum and thus to “the world”.

What about those members who out of TRUE benevolence take pictures and write reports, explanations, advisors or descriptions? Those members who happen to have a job outside the SF-realm and who yet give advice and inform others of interesting deals or products without the slightest expectation of an actual compensation?

???

Anyways, I vote that Aportnoy stays too, for the good of all shoe lovers on the forum.

 

[whoopee]

sysdoc, I hope you do post those pictures and more often in general. I remember seeing the shoes you and Janne made and would love to hear more about them. And of course, the shoe Appreciation you contribute is downright drool-inducing.

 

[whnay.]

I stop posting for a couple of days to tend to a hefty business load and ******* andrew announces he's leaving? What in the world in going around here?

Look Andrew, take some time off buddy, clear the head, hell buy some more shoes but please don't leave. One of the reasons I've stuck around is because of your generosity in sharing via posts and pictures your wonderful hobby. And it goes without saying that without you around the entire community would take a hit, it just wouldn't be the same without you.

The genesis of this forum is to share our love for fine clothing, good deals, and the occasional pictorial of fine shoes. The fact that business interests have gotten in the way of this and diluted the experience, damaging relationships and fractioning the community in the process, is extremely unfortunate. Lets get over it people and move on...