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Best Selvedge Denim for the Middle Class?

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by Jd5016, Apr 7, 2011.

  1. whodini

    whodini Senior member

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    No man, it hasn't gone over my head. You have succeeded in changing my own personal preference in wanting to have selvedge on my jeans. I no longer care. The hype is over. I wouldn't be caught dead in selvedge denim.

    xchen, this should inspire your next tattoo.
     
  2. xchen

    xchen Senior member

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    I could do a 3/4 sleeve in a traditional Japanese style with looms, indigo baths, and a geisha with full raw denim kimono. Anyone want to draw this for me?
     
  3. whodini

    whodini Senior member

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    It's just a shame that S-Town proclaimed the hype over, otherwise that would sound like a great idea.
     
  4. wEstSidE

    wEstSidE Senior member

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    haha funny that you mention busting seams. i heard that some of the "artisan" denim brands actually use fully cotton thread for stitching, i.e. without a poly core and that this leads to better thread fading qualities at the expense of weaker thread.
     
  5. S-Town

    S-Town Senior member

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    Hey, the hype can always be back on.

    Whodini, if I ever find myself in LA, I'd love to split a 30-pack with you.
     
  6. whodini

    whodini Senior member

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    haha funny that you mention busting seams. i heard that some of the "artisan" denim brands actually use fully cotton thread for stitching, i.e. without a poly core and that this leads to better thread fading qualities at the expense of weaker thread.
    Not surprising if true. The price of faithful reproductions is that you live with the same shit they did back then.
    Hey, the hype can always be back on.

    Whodini, if I ever find myself in LA, I'd love to split a 30-pack with you.


    Split? Get your own, pussy.
     
  7. phxlawstudent

    phxlawstudent Senior member

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    Can someone explain how they make non-selvage, but great quality denim? My understanding of the fabric making process is that you use either a shuttle loom, or basically air cannons to cross the threads. The shuttle loom would obviously take longer, but your putting less stress on the threads because it moves slower. The cannon method would likewise put more stress on the threads because they are basically being shot like a projectile at high speeds.

    That said, obviously not all selvage is created equal. There can certainly be some shit selvage made as quickly and cheaply as possible.

    However, that still leaves the question of whether the projectile method can create denim of as good quality? Can it? Comparing the best selvage can do with the best the projectile woven fabrics can do, does the "other" method reach a point of maximum quality? Does it not matter when the threads are thicker?

    As for the Lees or Wranglers comment, it is unfair to compare years worn. In order to get an accurate comparison, you have to compare the actual hours worn and compensate for the added wear and tear one wearer has vs. the other. I am pretty damn sure that the Wrangler wearer does not 1) wear his jeans very hard, and 2) live in them for most of his waking hours daily. He probably washes them too and didn't put a lot of wear & tear trying to fade them. In addition, I bet his jeans started off without starch which is horrible to fabrics.
     
  8. kurupted

    kurupted Member

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    I guess it's all for the best.

    And whodini is right. I briefly looked over some of this thread and saw the brands people on here were recommending and was appalled. The overall denim knowledge on this forum has completely disappeared in the last couple of years.


    Let's hear some suggestions!

    If someone dropped you in manhattan with a 100 dollar bill and told you to get some new jeans, where would you head?
     
  9. whodini

    whodini Senior member

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    Can someone explain how they make non-selvage, but great quality denim? ...

    As for the Lees or Wranglers comment, it is unfair to compare years worn. In order to get an accurate comparison, you have to compare the actual hours worn and compensate for the added wear and tear one wearer has vs. the other. I am pretty damn sure that the Wrangler wearer does not 1) wear his jeans very hard, and 2) live in them for most of his waking hours daily. He probably washes them too and didn't put a lot of wear & tear trying to fade them. In addition, I bet his jeans started off without starch which is horrible to fabrics.


    Do a search for some of ringring's posts but others far more knowledgeable on the subject than myself have answered this questions several times before. One such thread: http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=117799

    How are you so "damn sure" when you're cherry picking examples? For every example you have of a guy who beats the shit out of his jeans but they hold together there's another of a guy whose got a crotch blowout from his 9-5 desk job. I think few were really that familiar with busted seams until they got on here. Say what you will about washing/not washing, it also has to do with the kind of cotton threads used which are bound to be more fragile than their contemporary poly counterparts.

    You don't know much about denim if you think that somehow the jeans you find at Self Edge, etc. are free of starch.
     
  10. whodini

    whodini Senior member

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    Let's hear some suggestions!

    If someone dropped you in manhattan with a 100 dollar bill and told you to get some new jeans, where would you head?

    If you were limiting yourself to $100 you might as well go to the bottom end of that spectrum with some run of the mill Levi's. Or if you're looking into something Japanese, Uniqlo's got a good denim line.
     
  11. xchen

    xchen Senior member

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    Let's hear some suggestions!

    If someone dropped you in manhattan with a 100 dollar bill and told you to get some new jeans, where would you head?


    I haven't been in Manhattan in a few years but I'd probably go to 45rpm and get a 1'x1' denim scrap if you only gave me $100.
     
  12. entrero

    entrero Senior member

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    The shuttle loom would obviously take longer, but your putting less stress on the threads because it moves slower. The cannon method would likewise put more stress on the threads because they are basically being shot like a projectile at high speeds.
    Not all info being propagated is bullshit. For example shuttle loom fabric with less stress, has shown up on Paul T interviews on Ralph Tharpe and Roy. Benefits are no knee sagging/bulge, this particular issue occurs a lot but no one knows exactly why until now.
     
  13. kurupted

    kurupted Member

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    I haven't been in Manhattan in a few years but I'd probably go to 45rpm and get a 1'x1' denim scrap if you only gave me $100.
    Haha you must be fun at parties! I will assume that with 200$, you would buy either 2 pieces of the same fabric or a 1.41 x 1.41 piece of the previous fabric. [​IMG]
     
  14. xchen

    xchen Senior member

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    Haha you must be fun at parties! I will assume that with 200$, you would buy either 2 pieces of the same fabric or a 1.41 x 1.41 piece of the previous fabric.

    [​IMG]


    If you gave me $200 I'd get a 4"x4" swatch of the 24x hand dipped denim.
     
  15. whatever123

    whatever123 Senior member

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    Kind of. There are plenty of examples of companies that make jeans selvage/non using the exact same cut/construction, ie, KMW, 3Sixteen, Rag & Bone, etc. The construction and materials can be better with high-end selvage jeans simply because of the nature of the niche; companies are painstakingly recreating jeans that were built to last like they were decades ago and it wouldn't make sense to suddenly take a shortcut or change their minds when it comes to the type of denim used. And considering niche, it's understood that not only can you upsell specialized denim and construction but you almost expect the materials and construction to be top-notch to separate it from the saturated market.


    you are absolutely correct. i was suggesting in general high-end selvage is going to be superior ... but there are several non-selvage denim lines out there that make very fine denim.
     

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