Best quality

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by ClassyFreddy, Aug 26, 2003.

  1. shoefan

    shoefan Senior member

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    IMO, Brioni belong in the top rank. I also think that the Ralph Lauren Purple Label now being made by SaintAndrews belong in the second rank; they are clearly better than the Baldessarini stuff I've seen lately. Also, the Zegna Napoli stuff is beautifully tailored.
     


  2. Nick M

    Nick M Senior member

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    Thread hijack...
    Too late, I think it's one of the signs of the apocalypse... Porsche Cayenne
     


  3. naturlaut

    naturlaut Senior member

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    Mr. Donlipa, I am quite an Isaia enthusiast, so I am naturally very concerned. Â I have requested more pictures from that seller, but, after exchanging 3 emails, he still refused; and he even refused to tell me more about the new line. Â I have requested pictures of the size label, lining, pants closure (for Isaia tell tale signs), shoulders, etc., but he refused them all. Â I have written one last one to him and await his final words. Â He actually asks me to buy somewhere else if I keep asking him questions, as he said "there will be no satisfying you, & clients that can't be satisfied, I don't need." Â (~exact quote) and similar words in all his emails. As I have stated numerous times before, there is technically no noticeable differences between the Gianluca and the Enrico line. Â It is purely a marketting evolution, as Gianluca (the grandson of the founder) is currently running the company, thus they upped the level of the Gianluca line and ceased production on the Enrico. Â The ONLY different is in the waist band on the pants, where the Enrico is handset and the Isaia is machine sewn. Â There are no Enrico Isaia produced anymore. Â There are, however, direct factory order like this one on eBay - Isaia Sportcoat which carries the Isaia crown and 'Isaia' only, and these are rare and exceptionally nice --- construction-wise one couldn't tell the difference between this and a Kiton. Also, there are no 100% handmade suits in the real world (as much as they are trying to make us think so). Â Not Enrico Isaia, not Kiton, not Brioni, not Anderson & Sheppard. Â There are seams that are machine sewn (back seam of the jacket, bottom seam of pockets, etc.). Â The most important part of the jacket is the armhole and the front canvas, which, in my opinion, has to be hand done. Â As with normal practice, lower lines do come out (Sartorio for Attolini comes to mind), and they will usually appear in Europe first. Â They are usually made in a separate factory and might even be partly owned by others. Â US department stores will probably be the last place to carry those.
     


  4. naturlaut

    naturlaut Senior member

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    The last email from this seller, Peter Testa:

    Naturlaut,

    I am sure you are a decent person, but I like I said, I can see that you are
    very hard to satisfy. I DO NOT need, & especially DO NOT want any clients
    that I can't make happy. You can be suspicious all you want. If you can't
    see who you are dealing with from my feedback, than nothing I can say will
    alter that. I will not take any more photos. In fact, my photo's are
    probably the best on Ebay. Also, the navy pin is a coat ONLY, never was part
    of a suit, and is a Black, and grey labeled Isaia. AGAIN, I request that you
    purchase your Isaia else where.


    My earlier email (just to be fair):

    Dear Sir,

    If it is indeed a new line, then all the more I would love to learn about
    it.  Why can't you send more pictures?  I really don't understand.  And
    sellers who refuse customers?  As I told you earlier, I am an Isaia
    collector.  Kinda like someone who buys the latest gadget that comes to
    town.  I am really serious about it, thus I requested more pictures.  You
    could tell from my feedback profile that I don't bid often, and the fact
    that I keep requesting should show my interest, not doubt --- after all,
    look how many feedbacks you have.

    The only thing I 'dislike', honestly, is your buttoning the top button.  I
    don't think there should be an argument about that.  But otherwise, I would
    really like to see more of a label that cannot be found elsewhere.

    Up till now, you haven't really answered any of my questions....  I actually
    have more regarding this new line, like whether it is canvas front, how
    heavy the canvas and the padding is, what kind of lining used, etc..  If you
    still refuse by the next email, I am really going to suspect something
    ...... (a normal customer would get really suspicious by now actually...).

    Naturlaut
     


  5. naturlaut

    naturlaut Senior member

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    For my interest as well as yours, I will verify the lower line of Isaia with Mr. Tanner (Isaia's North American director). As soon as I get a reply I will let you know.

    Naturlaut
     


  6. Pink22m

    Pink22m Senior member

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    I thought I would add my two cents worth about the new Isaia line. I have some information on Isaia that I thought I would share with the forum.

    The history of Isaia dates back to the early 1920's, when father Enrico opened up a drapers shop in Naples. He originally sold wholesale fabrics used in producing fine garments. In the 1950's, he relocated to a small town outside of Naples, where he started a small artisan workshop. Along with his sons Enrico, Corrado and Rosario, they started the Isaia line of made to measure suits. Two decades later, brothers Enrico and Corrado created the Isaia signature line, and they now preside over the company started by their father.

    The Isaia line was exported in the late 80's first to Europe and Asia, and then to the U.S in the 1990's.

    The Isaia group (Isaia and Isaia S.P.A) is still family run. Part of this group is another firm, called Michelangelo S.R.L. Michelangelo is located north of Naples in a town called Frosinone. Brother Rosario Isaia runs Michelangelo, and all the garments produced are made in Italy and marketed as "Gian Luca Napoli" in the U.S market. This line was launched in the fall of 2002, and is meant to satisfy a growing need for half canvassed suits. The factory is integrated and has its own internal style team. The Gian Luca suits retail for between $795 and $950. The name Gian Luca is after Gianluca Isaia, who was born 40 years ago and attended a Milanese Economic School. After, he entered the family business with his cousins who already were running several aspects of the production process.

    The Gian Luca Napoli line has many elements taken from traditional Neapolitan tailoring, such as higher armholes. The armholes and collars are hand sewn.
     


  7. naturlaut

    naturlaut Senior member

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    Thank you. I wish that seller could have at least give me that and not chase me away. May I ask where you found this information?
     


  8. HRHAndrew

    HRHAndrew Senior member

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    Pink, that is great information thanks for sharing.
     


  9. BjornH

    BjornH Senior member

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    I went and took a look at Cerruti 1881 suits at my local store and they were all non-fused and with the bottom of the lining loosely hand sewn to the fabric. I even tried on one black 3-button made from super 150s wool and it felt sooo good. $1200 is a lot of money though and I can buy a lot of shirts for that  [​IMG] And btw I think our ClassyFreddy is a troll and was looking for trouble from the start. Perhaps we'll get Josh as well . B
     


  10. donlipa

    donlipa Member

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    Thanks for all the good info on isaia. I have 2 "gianluca isaia" suits (via eb*y) and I have always been impressed with the quality of construction. They do compare favorably with kiton. My wife also has an isaia suit and it is miles above any other women's suit I have ever seen (except kiton).
     


  11. Thracozaag

    Thracozaag Senior member

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    Thanks to everyone about the very informative and stimulating conversation about Isaia.

    My two cents on the list: Everyone is undervaluing Belvest. I would put Belvest somewhere between the 2nd and 3rd tier, as an equal with Luciano Barbera and a slight notch below Brioni or Zegna Napoli. In the old days, Belvest was the top of the line Italian suit offering from Neiman Marcus.
     


  12. HRHAndrew

    HRHAndrew Senior member

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    Isn't that where I listed Belvest? As I originally wrote to Freddy, it is of course subjective.  You don't see Belvest around much anymore.  Did anything happen to them?  

    I was pretty sure that 1881's were canvas, and well constructed.  They are definately a more "buttoned down" suit.  I am not sure where they get there fabric, but the 150's and cashmere blends are very nice.  Slap me, but I think $1200 for a nice 150 is a fair price for a hand worked canvas suit.

    Let's hope so, but in all fairness he did start what turned into a lively discussion.

    Does anyone have specific information on the Barbera fused line?  It would be nice to know what to be on the look out for.

    -Andy
     


  13. Thracozaag

    Thracozaag Senior member

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    My two cents on the list: Everyone is undervaluing Belvest. Â I would put Belvest somewhere between the 2nd and 3rd tier, as an equal with Luciano Barbera and a slight notch below Brioni or Zegna Napoli. Â In the old days, Belvest was the top of the line Italian suit offering from Neiman Marcus.
    Â Isn't that where I listed Belvest? As I originally wrote to Freddy, it is of course subjective. Â You don't see Belvest around much anymore. Â Did anything happen to them? Â [
    Bergdorf still carries them. I've always admired their fabric hand (from Biella, I think), and simple yet elegant cut.
     


  14. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Yes, Gian Luca is a diffusion line of Isaia, and they are available in the U.S. I've seen them at Stonestreets in Cambridge MA, and the quality is good, if not exemplary. The MSRP is $900-$1000 - not a great value, but not a ripoff either.

    I personally don't understand the aversion of many of you to these diffusion lines. Not everyone can appreciate a Kiton, and few can actually afford one. Nevertheless, there are those who would like a stylish and well-made, albeit not entirely handmade, suit, and would like to spend less than $3000+ on it. And keep in mind that the average US household takes in ~$45K before taxes, so $1000 is beyond the reach of most people.
     


  15. Thracozaag

    Thracozaag Senior member

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    I'm sorry, but an Isaia with a fused front, is not an Isaia anymore. A Steinway that is machine-made is no longer a Steinway. It's the principle of the thing.
     


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