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TheFoo

THE FOO
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Dude, wtf are you talking about. This is a weird mishmash of ideas.

The "11 commissions" thing started because David and I were talking in a Gennaro thread. You and Iammatt called us "menu tasters" because we liked to try different tailors. This was all in the Gennaro thread, where I tried to get Gennaro to come to San Francisco for a trunk show (another menu tasting, I suppose). I never denied that experience matters. But your point was basically that menu tasters such as me and David have no grounds to talk about tailoring or a certain tailor until we've commissioned 11 things from said tailor. That no comment is valid except for that type of experience. That's absurd.

Crazy that I'm having this convo with someone who argued for the value of long term relationships, but has since thrown out his five pairs of OneShoe and no longer even wears his Rubi jackets, let alone commission new things.

Also, I've never insinuated that you're racist and have no idea what you're talking about.

People interested in the whole 11 commissions saga can read this thread starting with this post

Dude, don’t play dumb. The whole point was that, given experience, one tends to gain a deeper impression of a tailor’s pros and cons, how they work, and what it takes to get optimal results from them.

You, a “sampler”, were promoting Gennaro without any background or experience with him, when he was the cutter for both myself and Iammatt over many, many commissions. I felt the need to push back on your enthusiasm given the number of vendors (particularly from southern Italy) that have turned out unreliable or straight-up dishonest. This was amidst NSM putting out seemingly hundreds of horrible jackets at a time, before anyone but a small handful of people could see or admit they were very problematic. This was also after Solito straight-up quit his U.S. clients and forced people to chase him down in Naples for their suits or money. Oh, then there was Ambrosi—swindler extraordinaire.

Bottom line: you were promoting a traveling tailor who had no track record of serving foreign clients when anyone with experience working with him or traveling tailors in general were telling you why it is a challenging prospect.

You were playing the archetypal iGent, which we have all been guilty of, by letting your fervor get ahead of practical reality. Even worse, you were feeding the frenzy for consumption over sense.

*****

You suggested I was racist when you said it was ironic that I enjoyed Basquiat because someone like me was the “sort” to call the police if I saw someone “like him”. Some really ugly shit.
 
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dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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You, a “sampler”, were promoting Gennaro without any background or experience with him, when he was the cutter for both myself and Iammmatt over many, many commissions. I felt the need to push back on your enthusiasm given the number of vendors (particularly from southern Italy) that have turned out unreliable or straight-up dishonest. This was amidst NSM putting out seemingly hundreds of horrible jackets at a time, before anyone but a small handful of people could see or admit they were very problematic. This was also after Solito straight-up decided not to visit the States anymore and force people to chase them down in Naples for their suits or money. Oh, and Ambrosi—swindler extraordinaire.
First of all, I wasn't promoting anyone. I was trying to round up enough orders in San Francisco because I wanted to try out his services without having to fly all the way to Italy. I think it's reasonable to see if anyone else is interested in that. People can make their own decisions whether they want to try a new tailor.

And weirdly enough, that whole thing was being "promoted" by T4. In your weird gatekeeping world, T4 has more experience and cred than you. Does his position now negate yours? He's the one that was trying to fly Gennaro out to various cities and find him new clients.

You suggested I was racist when you said it was ironic that I enjoyed Basquiat because someone like me would the “sort” to call the police if I saw someone “like him”. Some really ugly shit.
Huh? When did I ever suggest you're racist? I explicitly said in my comment that I did not meant to suggest that you're racist. This whole thing came up because you have skateboards hanging in your apartment with graffiti art on them. Nowadays, there's a bunch of rich people who like the "edginess" of street culture but will call the police on the same people who make those cultural references "edgy."

My point is that you have graffiti-painted skateboards in your apartment, but would probably call the police on graffiti artists and skaters in your neighborhood. This has nothing to do with race. The actual comments:

Somehow even worse that a finance guy would valorize a graffiti artist painting on a skateboard while probably calling the cops on the same people when he sees them in real life.
I genuinely didn't mean that you would call the cops on someone for being black or whatever, just that you ascribe to a certain view of the world that probably makes you more likely to call the cops on homeless people, street artists, and people who do drugs. You know, like the Basquait guy that you so valorize.
 

GeneralEmployer

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Gentlemen, shall we accept DWW's claim that his comments to Foo were made in good faith? Let's examine what preceded DWW's alleged implication of racism. Prior to what DWW quoted above came a rather explicit claim by him that Foo was a poseur:

I'm aware, but it seems strange to hang skateboards on your wall when you have no connection to skateboarding or its culture. It just seems like you hung them because "skateboarding is cool."

I'm not that hung up on the idea of authenticity, but that at least smacks of some kind of inauthenticity.

I realize we hang all sorts of things that we have no connection to, or wear things that we have no connection to, and culture is very fluid and contextual. But to me, that just speaks to the difficult ideas around authenticity. I know in the 90s, authenticity was a huge part of street culture. The worst thing you could be is a poseur. Hanging designer skateboards on your wall when you can't skate has to at least fall into that definition.
Yet, was this poast made in good faith? Did DWW really believe the premise on which his claim was built? Or was the above merely constructed ad hoc to impugn the Foo?

I suppose it depends on whether you want your clothes to reflect some kind of true inner self. And how you think of the concept of a true inner self. I personally don't have a problem with people playing "dress up," so long as they don't affect some kind of phony persona.

I also think that people are complex and have different identities. To the degree there's some true inner self, I think it's more about your personality, temperament, mental state, etc. There's a British documentary called Up, where two filmmakers track fourteen people over a period of something like 56 years -- nine episodes, each spanning 7 years apart -- and you can see how people's personalities remain remarkably consistent. To the degree there's a true self, I think that's probably more meaningful.

The other stuff seems really superficial and complex to me. Do you fancy yourself as a rugged guy, intellectual guy, outdoorsy guy, etc? People have all these things in them, mixed in with reality and aspiration, and they can reveal/ hide them as necessary in different social circumstances. You can dress in ways that reveal your actual activities or just some idealized version of yourself.
I leave it up to StyFo to decide this case.
 

edinatlanta

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GeneralEmployer

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Using not superior is objectively superior.
Edina has an urge to be publicly humiliated that I've detailed elsewhere (stems from his relationship with his father). He wants you to say inferior for this reason and this reason alone. Let him have this.
 

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