Bespoke vs. MTM

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Ruffles, Jun 24, 2012.

  1. Ruffles

    Ruffles Member

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    Hello everybody, I found this forum last week and I am liking it a lot, so great!

    If possible I would like to ask for help with some doubts that I have about Bespoke and Made to Measure tailoring.I already have many RTW suits but as I have some weird measures I want to get something more specific for my body.

    I read some threads about the bespoke process and I am really not prepared for it.So I think a MTM suit will attend perfecly my needs.About the MTM suits, usually it cost how much more than a RTW in the finest tailors?

    Specifically about Savile Row, Steed, Huntsman and Henry Poole for suits and Turnbull & Asser for dress shirts, they work with MTM service or just Bespoke?

    About Brioni and Kiton, I really like their fit, how much a MTM suit ussualy goes for?

    And finally, about shoes, the MTM price is so many different that the bespoke? I am looking for Lobb, J.M Weston and Berluti, they work with MTM or just bespoke?

    I really want something to fit nice in me, but my concern about bespoke is that I don't want to personalize nothing and as I read the MTM ones usually goes a lot cheeper than the bespoke.

    Thank you for reading and sorry for my english, its no my native language.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2012
  2. dragon8

    dragon8 Senior member

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    MTM usually starts at $1800 and above. Most MTM will use stock sizes and then tweak them to your measurements though some will start off with your measurements.

    Brioni and Kiton would probably start at least $6000.

    Shoes start at $4000
     
  3. KObalto

    KObalto Senior member

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    Huntsman does bespoke, MTM and RTW. Steed does bespoke and MTM. Lobb and Berluti both do bespoke and TRW. I think Weston is just RTW.
     
  4. Ruffles

    Ruffles Member

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    Thank you for the answer guys, I am looking the J Lobb site and the RTW usually goes under USD 2.000, so as I don't need to personalize nothing, I don't think that a bespoke shoes worth twice more than RTW will work for me.

    About Huntsman, Kiton and Brioni, do you know if their does MTM staring off with me measures or start with stock sizes and then tweak to my measures?
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2012
  5. Macallan

    Macallan Senior member

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    Suits - if you want a better fit, go to a shop that specialises in rtw and mtm suits, See what works, you may be happy with rtw with some tweaks if not go the mtm route.

    Shoes - go to a proper shoe shop, get your feet measured and get the best rtw fit shoes for yourself.

    Shirts - wear your rtw shirts until you get the other two sorted
     
  6. KObalto

    KObalto Senior member

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    MTM means they tweak existing patterns to your measurements.
     
  7. Ruffles

    Ruffles Member

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    But Kobalto, even in this finest tailors, like Huntsman, Brioni and Kiton they will do it? I don't know if I understood it, for me , to build a made to measure they would take my measures and so start the construction of suit, based on my measures and on a existing model of the collection, ins't it? Or they just take my measures and tweak a suit that is already made? Because If they only tweak a already existing suit there is no sense to do MTM, I cn just buy a RTW and take it to a tailor to tweak it for me.
     
  8. KObalto

    KObalto Senior member

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    They tweak an existing pattern for your measurements for MTM, not an existing suit. For bespoke, an individual pattern is created for you. You are right, altering an existing suit would just make it RTW.
     
  9. Paddock

    Paddock Member

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    Just go to Steed or A&S.
     
  10. KObalto

    KObalto Senior member

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    Are they now considered better than Hardy Amies? :uhoh:
     
  11. GBR

    GBR Senior member

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    Who is "Hardy Amies" and since when have they even been considered?
     
  12. E TF

    E TF Senior member

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  13. GBR

    GBR Senior member

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    The thread here concerns MTM or bespoke - I am well aware who Hardy Amies WAS but my question remains, this firm is irrelevant in terms of current suppliers and Amies was a designer primarily and not a Savile Row house.
     
  14. E TF

    E TF Senior member

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    I was merely pointing out that kobalto was making a joke at paddock's expense which you did not get because you hadn't read the other thread.
     
  15. Brendon

    Brendon Senior member

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    Hi Ruffles
    all different brands have different cut even though some may be made in the same factory. In a sense ignorance is bliss, a little knowledge can be dangerous. So here is some knowledge,; Off the peg or RTW is limited to simple alterations like waist of trousers. As soon as you alter sleeve lengths on RTW you tamper with one of the 2 good things aboout RTW, the finish. The price is of course the other.
    Made to Measure is the next step up and the human factor comes into this a little more. You are now dependent on the observational ability and knowledge and integrity of the person measuring and the complexity of the system of measures.
    MTM has limitations in that the inlays for manipulation are limited and in my opinion the sleeve mostly is fairly generic in that it lacks a shape and style and will be usually cut with a fairly generous false forearm and they always look a bit pipeish as they have to fit most people mostly but not anyone absolutely.
    Most made to measure suits lack chest and are generally crooked in cut , resulting in the hips relative to the shoulder and chest being larger ie a more feminine proportion in this area rather than that of a man. A lot of people on the forum defend this as open quarters though what this really is, is the straightening and crookening of a coat. A straighter coat is much harder to fit. In the bad old days all coats were fairly crooked as they came about from the frock coats. a morning coat and tails are correctly more crooked than the modern suit, the suit jacket originally referred to as the 3 seamer some time before the 1860's. Open quarters seem to be making a comeback if on nothing else than the growth of the poorly cut suit or the inexperience of decision makers of style to know any better. A crooked coat will never button up well, it will always be fighting with the buttons and so many other things that it would be an essay and not helpful.
    The strong point of MTM is that you will look like a lot of other people and in a place where difference is not always celebrated it may pay to be a little generic.
    The finish of a MTM will always easily rival a bespoke tailored suit for finish outside in inside.
    For some the inside of the jacket is just as important as the outside. Ask yourself this however, are you a person that likes to show off the inside coloured lining of your coat around the water cooler? Or walk around with the bottom cuff working buttonhole undone just so as people know that you have working buttons on the cuffs of the sleeve.
    If the answer is no, then your mind is free to concentrate on the most important thing about a suit which is the cut and the fit. And with Cut and the fit, bespoke will win this one hands down. As a bespoke tailor and cutter I have a bias towards Bespoke. However I got there after a long career in selling everything from a local suit to Zegna Valentino etc, and over a decade and a half decade of MTM under 4 different systems.
    Bespoke has its limitations. Not all tailors and cutter are good, some tailors become lazy, can't blame them it is a hard career ( though satisfying for the right person) apprentices may not work out, if Bespoke is the pinnacle then you are needing to conquer very high expectations, battling against the million dollar marketing campaigns of brands, it is a laboring job, the cutter develops the good client relationships, constantly battling the most ridiculous fashion influences . The daipered seat of suit trousers appearing below the coat is a good one right now. If only the suit wearer could see ass cam 5 yards back walking behind, they would ask for a longer coat.
    A big limitation is in communicating the cut to the first time customer. With MTM and off the peg you can roughly see what you are getting, with bespoke you will need to bridge the gap. All bespoke coats are made differently, the best ones however are a work of art. And if you are as fortunate as the poster Paddock who in posts on " The Best Bespoke in the world" or something like that, in that thread insists that money is no object, then go for the best, and that will be bespoke but the jury is out on who that is. I think get a suit cut in Savile Row and get it made by a tailor in Italy.
    I hope that there is the odd thing of help in here for you
    Good luck
    Brendon
     

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