Bespoke Shirts...what are my options?

[Mark Seitelman]

1. I am a Turnbull veteran for 6 years. On the plus side they have exclusive fabric designs, its famous stripes and plaids. These are unique. The negatives: base price is about $300 per shirt (which I think is a little high), a couple of fittings may be needed if you want a precise fit (pattern and shirt are made in English factory), and wait can be 2-3 months. Turnbull is a big commercial business, therefore, your order is one of many. BTW, Turnbull sells packages of its exclusive shirtings for about $75 per, therefore, you can bring the cloth to your shirtmaker.

2. I have used Bruce Cameron Clark in NYC. He doesn't make the shirts; he'a a bespoke clothier, and he has a shirtmaker off-premises. He used to be in charge of shirts for Nutters. He's very precise, and the shirts are better than Turnbull. He can also turn-out a shirt order in 2 weeks. Negative: price is higher than Turnbull. If you want a very precise fit you would have to buy a sample shirt, launder it, and return for another fitting. Bruce is a small shop, therefore, you'll receive much personal attention in fitting, etc.

3. Both of the aforesaid recommendations require at least one fitting if you are very precise and want a very precise fit.

4. If you do not want to spend the time and energy for multiple fittings in NYC, I recommend the following:

a) Find your local stores which sell Oxxford. They should also have the MTM shirt of Individualized Shirts. Under the Oxxford bespoke label (made by Individualtized) they can make one sample shirt which you can perfect before ordering more. I'm trying one, and I have found the Individualized Shirt to be very good for the money. The bespoke line is handmade and is comparable to Turnbull in quality. The price runs from about $200 to $400, and there is no minimum. I have used the regular Individualized Shirt, which is a lesser manufacture (and costs less), and I have been very satisfied with it.

b) If you want a very precise fit, you have to have at least one fitting after the sample is made. Therefore, I feel that visiting shirtmakers from England and Europe are not practical. It is more practical to use a local.

c) I think that the Borrelli is an excellent RTW shirt, but I have been disappointed with MTM. In a couple of cases the order did not arrive. In another case the order was botched on the second time around, and I returned the order.

 

[Manton]

There is also Stephen Kempson in New York.  He takes measurements and has the shirts made in England.  I think the base price is $275.  I have not used him, but Bruce Boyer spoke highly of him.

 

[imageWIS]

The problem with bespoke shirt makers, especially via larger factories is that they will not manufacture anything that is not from their "˜standard' manufacturing line, i.e. Borrelli will not manufacture angled-split yokes, etc...

As well, consistent pattern matching seems to be a term that many shirt makers simply do not understand. Not to paraphrase Alex Kabbaz, but the shirt maker should make whatever the customer wants, not what they consider to be the correct thing for the customer.

Jon.

 

[gorgekko]

I can't imagine why you would not be interested in Jantzen. Even if you dislike their well-made shirts, you can use them to get a perfect fitting shirt and have it copied by any of these innumerable Italian firms who will copy measurements, and whose links were just posted. I am dying to find out how good they are.

Are Jantzen's really well made though? For every post I see praising Rickey's work I see another one complaining about shirts being too short, too long, too, too, too...

For the price I suppose you can't really complain too strenuously but if one has to wait five months to get an order completed, as one chap here stated the other day, receiving them and finding them wanting wouldn't encourage me to order more or recommend Jantzen to others.

 

[johnnynorman3]

Jantzen's construction is good.

As a general matter, Jantzen could cut smaller/higher armholes. But this is a small complaint, and one that could have easily been cured by me had I (1) given my height as 5'7" instead of 5'10" [the armhole height is determined by your height I think] or (2) specified more clearly [as Alias has done] my desired scye measurement.

Jantzens fabrics will never be as good as the great makers, obviously. For all but a few fabrics, the fabrics are 110s and 120s. These are very good still though, considering that you won't get much higher with most high-end RTW.

Some people complain about the yoke design -- but this is a detail that you will have no control of with RTW manufacturers, if not all.

People complain about the quality of the buttons -- they are not Borrelli quality, or even RL Collection quality, but they are good (and good enough).

I've compared the stitching on my Jantzen shirts to the stitching on my Polo/Lorenzini shirts. For my money, the stitching on the Jantzen shirts is less visible, the seams less visible, and the seams less apt to pucker. It has as many, if not more, stitches per inch than the Lorenzini. The collar is a decent fused collar -- not quite the level of Brioni (which I think uses a lot of fused collars), but much better than say Armani Collezioni.

And I find Jantzen to simply give you more control over your shirt than any of the other "discount" MTM services. The only hesitation I have is the wait period can be helter skelter.

 

[MPS]

Are Jantzen's really well made though? For every post I see praising Rickey's work I see another one complaining about shirts being too short, too long, too, too, too...

There is a difference between being a well made and fitting properly. In fact, I despair of anyone who fails to be impressed by them.

 

[johnnynorman3]

Well, Tom (our resident chiropracter) isn't impressed by the construction, and by his stories he has good cause. But, yes, the construction has been first rate IMO. Still, construction arguably encompasses fit as well, since going by AK's old posts, creating a shirt with the proper taper, etc. necessitates good thread tension, etc.

 

[iwantstyle]

Son of Brummel or others....how do you go about getting Turnbull fabric for another shirt maker (as indicated in bullet point 1 in your previous response)? Walk into the store and ask to purchase it? Get it online somewhere? Thanks a bunch.

 

[gorgekko]

Still, construction arguably encompasses fit as well, since going by AK's old posts, creating a shirt with the proper taper, etc. necessitates good thread tension, etc.

That would have been my point...to me good construction also includes good fit.

I'm not blasting Jantzen as I have no experience with them -- I am planning on placing an order sometime this year as an experiment.

 

[MPS]

Quote:

(johnnynorman3 @ Jan. 24 2005,16:05) Still, construction arguably encompasses fit as well, since going by AK's old posts, creating a shirt with the proper taper, etc. necessitates good thread tension, etc.
That would have been my point...to me good construction also includes good fit.
Poor fitting at a distance is most likely down to the measurements they've been given to work with. As for poor construction resulting in a shirt that's too short: surely you're joking.

 

[matadorpoeta]

gorgekko,
jantzen shirts are well constructed. if you already have shirts that fit you perfectly, i strongly suggest you simply mail one to jantzen and have them copy it.

 

[jekv12]

I have used the regular Individualized Shirt, which is a lesser manufacture (and costs less), and I have been very satisfied with it.

Did you get solids or patterns? My experience with IS has been spotty. When the IS rep was in the store (a couple times a year) I found I could tweak a number of things, but - and this is one reason I likely won't be buying any more - the pattern matching has been atrocious. I've sent a few shirts back because it was so bad and so noticeable. And by this I mean on checked shirts across the front button placket (casual shirts), stripes on the collars and cuff ends on the dress shirts. Don't even think about the sleeve plackets.

 

[gorgekko]

As for poor construction resulting in a shirt that's too short: surely you're joking.

I'm not joking and don't call me Shirley.

 

[jcusey]

Borrelli and Vacca (Finnamore) have a minimum order of 6 and start at around 350. I think Barney's does Lorenzini and Battistoni at around 300 with a minimum order of 3.

I can't speak to Vacca, Lorenzini, or Battisoni, but with Borrelli, it really depends on where you buy them. At my friendly neighborhood men's store, the minimum order is 2 and they start at around $295.

 

[jcusey]

c) I think that the Borrelli is an excellent RTW shirt, but I have been disappointed with MTM. In a couple of cases the order did not arrive. In another case the order was botched on the second time around, and I returned the order.

I've had some problems, as well. The story that the Borrelli people were telling earlier this year was that the problem was with their US agent, not with the factory. They apparently fired him and claim that service will improve. We'll see.