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Bespoke NYC

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by lockey2k, Sep 25, 2006.

  1. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    At Paris I've seen a tall, lanky gentleman with wild greyish hair, whom I believe to be Bruce Cameron Clark. Can anyone confirm that the description matches?
    Yep.
     
  2. Film Noir Buff

    Film Noir Buff Senior member

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    Agree with everything Cantabrigian says. Fantastic construction and beautiful shirts. Just watch out for the plastic buttons.
    I hope youre not insinuating Paris uses plastic buttons? No, Im sure youre not.
     
  3. Mark Seitelman

    Mark Seitelman Senior member

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    Mark, doesn't Bruce Cameron Clark use Paris? You can go to the factory directly and significantly less for the same quality shirt.


    Yes, I think so. But you don't get Bruce unless you go to Bruce!

    Bruce is an excellent fitter and stylist. Best shirts that I have.
     
  4. Shirtmaven

    Shirtmaven Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    When I fist started in business I worked with one of the gambert factories as Well as Mark(Atam's Father) at Paris. This is over 20 years ago.
    He used to use the ugliest Plastic button available. I hated the button, and ended up giving him my own pearl buttons to use. They had other buttons, but the clear plastic one was what was the default button.

    They became quite good friends with a fellow in the button business,since retired. From that time on, the buttons improved.

    The tall fellow with the wild gray hair is Bruce.


    Carl
     
  5. lockey2k

    lockey2k Senior member

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    the same sort of fabric that i use in a $135 shirt could be found C21 or FB for as low as $25. Remember. Most companies that sell the better discounters are usually cutting up excess fabric inventory to keep the factory busy. or just want to make the stuff disapear. Some discount stores have programs where less expensive fabric is used.

    Stitch wise. Most Better RTW shirts have comparable needlework.

    The advantage of Custom /MTM shirts is fit. and details.

    On average a $135 shirt from me could run anywhere from $80-$170 depending on the label and the store.

    Carl


    Thanks for the info. ^___^
     
  6. new obsession

    new obsession Senior member

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    GO TO CARL [​IMG] GO TO CARL [​IMG] GO TO CARL [​IMG]
    GO TO CARL [​IMG]

    As a matter of fact, I have to GO TO CARL, and pick up a shirt.... damn this job...
     
  7. zjpj83

    zjpj83 Senior member

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    Is CEGO bespoke or MTM?

    i.e. will there be fittings for the shirts, are my uneven shoulders going to be taken care of, etc.
     
  8. whoopee

    whoopee Senior member

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    Carl both MTM and bespoke. The latter is done by independent makers. , of which I know of a couple old Chinese shirtmakers, one or two from South America, and Paris. THey make a sample shirt and alter from there. They make a pattern; it is bespoke, and figuration issues that can't be dealt with in MTM shouldn't be a problem.
     
  9. zjpj83

    zjpj83 Senior member

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    whoopee, sorry, I don't understand. Carl does MTM and bespoke, but he outsources the bespoke operation?
     
  10. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Senior member

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    I would also add that while Paris makes a very nice shirt, the customer service is, at least in my experience, rather lacking.

    I ordered six shirts about six months ago, paid for the full order five months ago and have yet to receive so much as an advanced sample. My initial instructions were pretty much disregarded in terms of styling and Atam has offered a number of excuses for the significant delays ranging from - 'I tried to call you but the number didn't work' to 'the sample must have been lost in the mail.' They may be valid excuses but as they pile up, they seem more along the lines of the dog ate my homework.

    I'm willing to cut the guy some slack since he and his wife just had a baby but I'm getting to the point of asking for a refund and going to Geneva - which is a bit cheaper for what I hear is very similar in quality.
     
  11. rnoldh

    rnoldh Senior member

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    I was wondering if anyone on the Forum has personal experience with ordering Alexander Kabazz's shirts. They are beyond my budget. Yet with some of the high rollers on this forum ( Kiton k50 suits, Huntsman Bespoke suits, etc.), there must be someone that has experience. Or is there not?
     
  12. whoopee

    whoopee Senior member

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    whoopee, sorry, I don't understand. Carl does MTM and bespoke, but he outsources the bespoke operation?

    All of Carl's work is outsourced. From what he's told me, he can sew a button. That's about it. His "bespoke" product is really good, because Carl is a top-notch fitter.
     
  13. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I have used Kabbaz. The shirts are noticably (to me) better than any others I have tried in terms of fit and construction, but the cost differential is incredibly steep. I can get an otherwise serviceble shirt for 1/4 to 1/2 the price, depending on maker and cloth. For everyday wear to the office, that makes more sense. Kabbaz shirts are, for me, special occasion shirts, for the most part.
     
  14. Shirtmaven

    Shirtmaven Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    whoopee, sorry, I don't understand. Carl does MTM and bespoke, but he outsources the bespoke operation?

    I am neither a patternmaker not tailor. Most of my shirts are made for me by a factory in NJ. Patterns are generated by computer. I also have several tailors/shirtmakers who work for me off premise. they make true paper patterns.

    As someone in the trade, the need to define these terms can be confusing.

    To me, made to measure is just that. Measurements are taken and a garment is cut to those specs. Wether the pattern is generated by a computer or drawn out on paper. The customer has chosen(bespoken for) fabric and a garment is made to his measurements

    Some of the online Custom shirt programs are very limted in terms of what can be manipulated in terms of fit. For good reason. The more options that a consumer is given, the better chance of screwing up.

    I am amazed at the many options that are on the Jantzen order form that are offered at no charge. Not that it is so expensive to add a colored gusset to a tail of a shirt, just that the chance of the wrong color going on the shirttail is possible. Of course at those prices, I assume that shirts are not returned unless there is a serious fit mistake. are you going to bitch and moan if you received 2mm buttons rather then those obnoxiously thick 3mm buttons. I am amazed that Jantzen does not charge more for those 3mm buttons. They are expensive and I need to sew those on by hand, since the button sewing machine needs to be adjusted to accomadate that button.


    At the end of the process, are you pleased with the results.


    Carl
     
  15. mistahlee

    mistahlee Senior member

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    Can recommend from personal experience:
    Turnbull & Asser. Most beautiful collection of cloths. "The British look." You must be patient, and don't expect quick turnaround. You are also working through a few degrees of separation in that the NYC fitter e-mails the order to UK where the shirt is made.


    I must say a word for T & A. We began with a "test shirt." My tailor studied the fit and made a drawing with changes. Turnbull remade the shirt and awaited my approval before executing the order. The New York folks were pleased, even delighted, to work that way and the results are excellent.
     
  16. zjpj83

    zjpj83 Senior member

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    Thanks for the explanation, Carl.
     
  17. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Senior member

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    Just added another great Paris story to my growing collection.

    I went in for a fitting and I must admit that the pattern is coming along extremely well. Atam noted one change and I noted one as well but overall the shirt fits very well without being the least bit constrictive.

    Everything was great except for the fact that they had used the wrong fabric. I had picked out a basic royal oxford and the shirt was a basic twill (the color was white in both instances).

    I pointed this out. Did Atam simply admit to this simple mistake and offer some suggestion as to how to rectify the situation? Of course not!

    He stammered as he thought of what he was going to tell me and then came up with 'Oh, this is a finer fabric.' I'm no fabric wonk so that may well be true, though there didn't appear to be much of a difference.

    But when I indicated that I really wanted a royal oxford and that this clearly was not a royal oxford but rather a twill he still and quite unbelievably insisted that the cloth (with tightly-woven diagonal lines) was, in fact, royal oxford.

    I have no idea why he didn't just own up to a that small mistake. Had he been honest with me, I might have considered taking the shirt - in what I really do consider to be a rather unattractive fabric - off his hands at a slight discount. But now I am rather insistent of having the shirt re-made in the correct fabric.

    I had to go to catch a train so I defered that argument for another day but I was really rather depressed that I appear dumb enough to fall for something that.
     
  18. Patrick Bateman

    Patrick Bateman Senior member

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    Sounds like the relationship may be doomed from the start.

    It's also weird that he would do that, since the real money is in repeat customers, not single shirts.
     
  19. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Cantab: I had a similar experience with them last year. Four separate unsustainable statements in succession. Two were of little consequence, arguably, but two were about my order. At that point I gave up and took my business downstairs, after having been a customer since 1999. I am extremely happy with the new guys, who charge less, make a comparable-quality shirt that fits (me) better, and shoot straight.
     
  20. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Senior member

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    We're definitely getting to that point if we're not already there...

    I was able to meet Mark, Atam's father. He really impressed me. He's definitely proud of the business they've built but struck me as an honest, no-nonsense guy.

    Is Geneva open on Saturdays? That would seal the deal. I don't begrudge anyone wanting to take a weekend but I really just can't get to Little Korea during the week more often than once every 2-3 months.
     

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