bespoke math

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by PiPPo NYC, Jun 7, 2012.

  1. PiPPo NYC

    PiPPo NYC New Member

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    Hi everyone,

    Although I have been following the forum for a while, this is my first post. The question I have is the following. I am having my first bespoke suite made here in NYC. The cloth I selected is a Dormeuil Amadeus. I am 6’ 2” and weight 175 lbs. Assuming that I would need 3.5 meters of cloth, which probably retails for $150 per meter ($450) plus $50 for Bemberg lining, horn buttons & other materials, it would yield $500 in raw costs for the tailor. He wants to charge me $3,000. He said that the patterns would be designed in NY, but assembly made overseas (which I think is a marketing word for China). Construction of a bespoken suit requires 80 hours which tells me that they charge $30 per hour for something that is mainly made in China.

    I think that the mark-up is too much. I was planning to bargain him down to $2,500. Am I too aggressive?

    In any event I have to investigate more because I do not understand how I can get a basted fitting if assembly is made overseas.

    Thanks a lot
     
  2. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Welcome to NYC, enjoy your stay.
     
  3. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Jewfro Dubiously Honored

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    Good luck with that plan. How did you choose this tailor?
     
  4. GBR

    GBR Senior member

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    When he throws you out....


    4m is more normal for cloth for a suit. Fittings - quite simple the baste garment is returned to New York - that has a cost which your aggressive ways are not accounting for amongst many other things. Why is 20% too high a mark up for the non-attributable costs?
     
  5. Maximus Mark

    Maximus Mark Senior member

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    Don't do it. For $3 G's, find a tailor that does construction on premises, with a paper pattern cut for you and basted fittings.

    Made-in-Asia is not bespoke but MTM and you should not pay more than $1500.
     
  6. Eustace Tilley

    Eustace Tilley Senior member

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    $3K in NYC for a bespoke suit in China is ridiculous. Go to Ercole, and get a locally made bespoke suit for a little over $2K.
     
  7. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Jewfro Dubiously Honored

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    ORLY? I thought Ercole was significantly more, I guess I was wrong.
     
  8. Master Shake

    Master Shake Senior member

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    I make a point of not having the person working on anything of mine hate my guts.
     
  9. rob

    rob Senior member

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    Not a bad strategy.

    Rob
     
  10. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Depends on the fabric you choose.
     
  11. zalb916

    zalb916 Senior member

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    Without commenting on anything other than your cost calculations, there are many costs associated with a business other than raw materials and labor.
     
  12. Simon at Elite

    Simon at Elite Affiliate Vendor

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    I was in China a few months ago visiting the specialist bespoke tailors who contract to us and had a look through their suits that were finished and ready to be shipped. There were some well known tailor names from all over the world on the labels.

    I see no problem with having a suit made in China. I'd be happier paying $3k for a suit hand stitched in the hongbang tradition in Shanghai than $2k for something run up by machine in NYC.

    So my advice would be to go for it. As for your math at 6'2" you will need more than 3.5 meters and $150 for Dormeuil sound expensive

    I tell people it's impossible to explain the absolute beauty of a suit hand stitched by an experienced tailor. Some one with the knowledge to look at a set of measurement and photos of the customer and know exactly what he needs to do to fit that body shape. There are things experienced tailors can do by hand that will never be able to be replicated by machine.

    There is a catch 22 situation in that you can't ever truly understand why you would want to own such an artisan suit until you actually own one. When I received my first hand stitched suit from China is was so beautiful I didn't know if I should wear it or frame it and hang it on the wall as the piece of true art it is.
     
  13. dirkweems

    dirkweems Well-Known Member

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    Maximus Mark is correct. For that price you would be better off with MTM on Savile Row. Or if you live in NYC, you could go to Turbull & Asser and pay less for MTM and $$4,000 for Bespoke (please check, My estimate could be years old). At least you will meet the cutter and know who and where the tailors are, and you can go for several fittings and adjustments if necessary.

    I don't see how the construction could take place overseas. All my fittings on the Row have included the cutter and the person ripping and putting the coat and trousers back together. The cutter often points to how something drapes and discusses the same with the tailor who is looking at his work in 3D. Even if you have a pattern that hasn't changed in years, every fabric is different, the tightness of a seam could alter the look of a coat. So for all the money you are spending on Bespoke, you really aren't getting what you are paying for.

    From what I know, the cost of a suit has nothing to do with height and weight. Price includes COGS, SG&A, and some variable costs too, including an estimate of after sales service. I have yet to be charged for minor alterations, or the occasional cleaning and pressing.

    I think SF members can recommend several NYC tailors who can do all the work locally.
     
  14. Eustace Tilley

    Eustace Tilley Senior member

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    Uh, yeah - as with any tailor. But his starting price is a little over $2K with good English cloth.
     
  15. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Jewfro Dubiously Honored

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    Yea I was thinking a different ballpark. For some reason, which obviously now must be unfounded but I can't remember it regardless, I thought he was something like twice that.
     

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