Bespoke Gone Bad?

[TimothyLeighton]

Hi,

First up cheers to everyone who posts here, it's a brilliant read and if I hadn't read as much of it as I have I probably wouldn't have known enough to have the problem I currently have:

I've just ordered a bespoke suit (my second) for my wedding. I ordered it from a tailor I've had alterations done by for some time and my father in law got a suit at the same time.

As both the tailor and my father in law are older than me by a good 20 years I automatically became the 'child' in this dynamic and as such had to fight to get the features I was after having been told working cuffs were pointless, DB lapels on a single breasted jacket were virtually impossible and sh*t, that I shouldn't have sleeves that short (I like shorter sleeves) etc... etc...

Nonetheless it was a nice thing to do with my father in law who seems to have enjoyed both the process and his suit.

Unlike me. When it came to the final fitting he gave me a jacket that was so ill fitting as to render any measurements he'd taken irrelevant. It was massive in the body, rode up at the back and the collar didn't sit anywhere near flush to my neck when buttoned and standing. when moving about it was a nightmare. Even a newbie like me with a wardrobe of charity shop suits could see it was a terrible fit. Obviously it doesn't always fit first time but my problems are these:

1. He seemed oblivious to how bad it was and actually seemed pleased with it.
2. He was incredibly defensive when I pointed out exactly how bad it fitted.
3. He got fairly huffy when he finally agreed to alter it.

I've got to pick it up on Friday. I've lost all faith in him and it seems at best I've got an arguement where I'll lose my deposit at worst I've got an arguement where I'll end up paying for something I wouldn't pick up in a charity shop.

Assuming my jacket is still far away from any good what should I do come Saturday?

Thanks in advance.

 

[epa]

You could do as I did with one of my first bespoke suits: be a coward, pay, wear it a couple of times until you are sure that you will never be happy with it, and then give it away to charity and use another tailor next time.

Today, I would try a different approach: if you have a friend or acquaintance who is knowledgeable about suits and fitting issues, bring him (or her?) to the next fitting to get a "second opinion"; it may help you to strenghten your position vis-a-vis the tailor, especially if he notices that the other person really understands this stuff. Of course, you run the risk of being told by your friend, in front of the tailor, that the tailor is actually right and that the alterations you want are inappropriate...

 

[yfyf]

Wow ... this tailor sounds awful. How do your father in law's suits look? Incidentally, it's probably best not to rub him the wrong way if it's going to have an impact on your relationship with your father-in-law. To tell him x, y and z is wrong could be construed as father-in-law's suit is wrong.

epa's suggest is good as well. If things go awry, might as well let someone else be the sacrificial lamb.

 

[Kaizen]

I recently had a linen jacket made by a local tailor and had some similar problems. Although the fit and construction was good, I mentioned that I'd want to have my next jacket a bit shorter (at the end of my thumbtips, instead of an inch below) and show a bit more cuff (compared to the 'none' that this jacket was showing). The tailor stated rather insistently (although politely) that he was the only master tailor in town, and he knew what the lengths should be, and customers always had crazy ideas that he had to counteract with the correct way. At that point, I knew that he wouldn't be making anything else for me.

Like many things in life, I think that one of the most important requirements for a tailor is good communication. If they are unable, or unwilling, to communicate, they aren't the tailor for me. It's time to continue the search.

 

[Vintage Gent]

Originally Posted by Kaizen

I recently had a linen jacket made by a local tailor and had some similar problems. Although the fit and construction was good, I mentioned that I'd want to have my next jacket a bit shorter (at the end of my thumbtips, instead of an inch below) and show a bit more cuff (compared to the 'none' that this jacket was showing). The tailor stated rather insistently (although politely) that he was the only master tailor in town, and he knew what the lengths should be, and customers always had crazy ideas that he had to counteract with the correct way. At that point, I knew that he wouldn't be making anything else for me.

Was this Nick Lopez?

 

[Kaizen]

Originally Posted by Vintage Gent

Was this Nick Lopez?
No, this was Orlin. Nick was better to work with, but the results still ended up being (for the most part) his house style, and I'm looking for something fairly different. Rather than trying to swim upstream, I'm either going to find a tailor who already makes the shape I want (which is what I should have done in the first place), or switch to OTR with a good alterations tailor, so I can at least be certain that the starting point is already close to what I want.

 

[Vintage Gent]

Originally Posted by Kaizen

No, this was Orlin.
I hadn't heard of Orlin before, so I did some looking and found his web page. I was taken by this paragraph in his custom suit section: "You will be measured and fitted by the same master tailor. He will cut your suit and follow the whole procedure until your suit is completed. When you are having a suit made at W.W.Chan, you are not working with a salesman alone, an expert tailor will also walk you through." (italics mine) Edit: I just checked the Chan web site. Exact same text. Orlin lifted it verbatim, forgetting to change the name.

 

[JLibourel]

That's pretty hilarious about this Orlin plagiarizing from our mutual friends in Kowloon and then forgetting to change the name!

Getting back to the original post, a jacket that extends an inch below my extended thumb would be almost mid-thigh for me, and I have very short arms relative to my height!

 

[mikeber]

In the past, I had similar experiences with bespoke and it always amuses me when forum members discuss with such great confidence how significantly superior bespoke is to MTM...

I think that MTM programs such as Zegna, Samuelsohn, BB or Polo would have yielded a better suit then the disaster you describe. In most cases, a solid MTM will produce a reasonable (if not perfect fit), but the total disaster would have been avoided.

 

[stickonatree]

i would never go to a plagiarizer tailor.

 

[Lel]

Useless without pics!

 

[epa]

Originally Posted by Vintage Gent

I hadn't heard of Orlin before, so I did some looking and found his web page. I was taken by this paragraph in his custom suit section:

"You will be measured and fitted by the same master tailor. He will cut your suit and follow the whole procedure until your suit is completed. When you are having a suit made at W.W.Chan, you are not working with a salesman alone, an expert tailor will also walk you through." (italics mine)

Edit: I just checked the Chan web site. Exact same text. Orlin lifted it verbatim, forgetting to change the name.

You just made my day, and it is only 8:30 a.m.

 

[epa]

Originally Posted by mikeber

In the past, I had similar experiences with bespoke and it always amuses me when forum members discuss with such great confidence how significantly superior bespoke is to MTM...

I think that MTM programs such as Zegna, Samuelsohn, BB or Polo would have yielded a better suit then the disaster you describe. In most cases, a solid MTM will produce a reasonable (if not perfect fit), but the total disaster would have been avoided.

Frankly speaking, I am not sure. I have had two (out of two) quite frustrating experiences with Zegna MTM. Not really bad fit, but the price is about the same as I pay for "bespoke" (here in Madrid, using El Corte InglÃ

s for bespoke; basically around EUR 1500 for a suit, using "normal" cloths from providers such as Holland&Sherry, Scabal, Dormeuil), and I am more happy with the results of the bespoke process. However, true, I have also tried a couple of other local "bespoke" tailors, one turned out to basically do MTM and the pants arrived far too large so he had to do the same adjustments as I have to do when I choose RTW (and I am not pleased with the end result, although it is good enough for me to wear the suit now and then; also, although the jacket "fits" OK, I do not really like the way it looks and he only used three sleeve buttons instead of the four I had asked for, although this does not really matter a lot for me), and the other one made me a really horrible suit, which almost made me go back to RTW (actually, it looked worse than most RTW suits I have had).

 

[BBRex]

Assuming you don't get bespoke suits in Houston/Galveston, what tailor do you go to for quality alterations?

 

[Biscione]

Originally Posted by mikeber

In the past, I had similar experiences with bespoke and it always amuses me when forum members discuss with such great confidence how significantly superior bespoke is to MTM...

I think that MTM programs such as Zegna, Samuelsohn, BB or Polo would have yielded a better suit then the disaster you describe. In most cases, a solid MTM will produce a reasonable (if not perfect fit), but the total disaster would have been avoided.

That all depends upon the capacities of the tailor.

If they're untalented and don't understand suits properly, mtm may very well be better. If they are talented and know how to make what is appropriate and what their customer wants, nothing is better.