Bespoke Fitters Model

[glenjay]

Originally Posted by sully

This is going to be very interesting. Will you be able to show pictures of the shoes in the stages of making, such as welting ,waist beveling and so on.
How was the fit ? the outside quarter looks rather high to me, did it catch your ankle.
The wing cap is very short and an unusual shape to my eye, but this is the beauty of having shoes made you can have what you want.

I had requested a shorter wing cap because I like that look. The heel counter will be brought down a little to balance it out.

I do have a slight rub at the bottom of one ankle, but DW said he would take care of that (one of the benifits of bespoke).

Unfortunatly I will not be able to take pictures during the actual construction process, and I certainly don't want to slow down DW's process. I will try to take pictures of the shoes whenever I visit his shop, but other than the second fitting the next time I see the shoes will probably be when I pick up the finished product. If DW decides to take some pictures of the process that would be great, but that is up to DW.

The shoes fit pretty snug, but I expect that in a bespoke shoe. The point of the fitting is to see what areas are too snug (or too loose) and make adjustments to the last before the final construction.

 

[DWFII]

Originally Posted by sully

In London the main bespoke makers do not use a fitters model, instead they let the customer try the shoe on at the welted stage.In fact Lobb London do not even do that ,they make the shoe all the way through. Any comments on the reasons they do not feel a fitters shoe is needed .Are they just very skillful or are they chancing their luck.
I can't speak to the reasons some might do one thing or another, except to reiterate that I am doing the work twice...even three times (on rare occasions even four or more times). Not all of it to be sure but much of it. On the other hand, how about you tell me how you like a shoe to fit...just by way of a thought experiment. Do you like your shoes to fit snug, loose or tight? Maybe, snug in the heel loose in the forepart? OK. Now...what does "snug" mean to you? How do you empirically define "a little looser here, please"? A shoemaker pulls the tape around the foot conveying just so much tension to it...just so much muscle tension. Is it .5387 foot pounds per square inch? Who knows? I don't, but I know what I feel in my arms and fingers. I get a certain result that is, because of long experience, mostly reproducible, all other things being equal. But, guaranteed no other shoemaker in the world will describe what he is doing/feeling in the same terms that I do. More importantly even if they get the same final results, in terms of fit, there is no guarantee they will measure the foot and get the same figures as I do. I measure for snug. The customer tries on the shoe and cries "too tight, too tight!" I check the shoe and I can chase a ripple of leather ahead of my fingers as I run them across the foot/shoe. I think to myself "heck, I think I missed him--I think they are too loose." Who's right? Well, objectively I am. But subjectively the customer is. If he thinks the shoe is too tight...it is too tight. Even if his foot is bouncing around inside it like a hard rubber spherical object in a handball court. Because, bottom line the shoemaker must not only fit the customer's foot he must fit the customer's head. There may be any number of ...many, many even...shoemakers who give short shrift to that notion. Who don't care what the customer thinks (I've run across them in the bootmaking Trade...heck, I've been one of them) but at this stage of the game I'd rather please the customer than be right. That's the point of making bespoke shoes, after all.

 

[sully]

I have bespoke shoes by 3 different makers.The John Lobb shoes were made many years ago and I find them roomy.The Foster and son shoes feel snug but very comfortable and were so from the first wear.There was no breaking in period needed they felt great from day 1.
The others were made privately by a maker who works for some of the leading makers in London
They also felt good from the beginning.What I mean by snug is I can only get the shoes on with a shoe horn and there is a puff of air as the foot enters the shoe. The foot inside is held by the shoe and doesn't move around but is wonderfully encased, there really is nothing as fine as a comfortable bespoke shoe. But beside the fit the look and styling is also a consideration.The best makers seem to get a wonderful fit combined with an elegant look to the shoes, the heel shape,waist. and toe shapes all combine to give the shoes a unique look . Getting a good fit and a good looking shoe is the real art of the maker. Apart from the Lobb shoes the others were tried on at the welt stage and some minor ajustments made.
I leave the idea of what is a good fit to the maker and my contribution is how they feel on my feet and how they look.
I am not really familiar with DWF's style of shoemaking so it will be so interesting to see another artisan showing his work,will it be like London work or maybe European styling (Berlutti etc..) or a whole new take on things, one thing is certain the fit will be perfect .

 

[fritzl]

Originally Posted by emptym

Wow, a wholecut fit shoe! That is big time. Beautiful.

not a wholecut at all. plain derby(in this case)

maftei made a fit shoe for me without asking.

as sully mentioned. lobb goes all the way through. the risk is bearable. they can put them on display and nobody will ask, where they come from.

after a certain period of time, they call culverwood, if he wants a rejected bespoke shoe and he will agree.

 

[TheTukker]

Very cool indeed Glenjay - many thanks and looking forward to the process.

 

[srivats]

Glenjay, thanks for sharing this with us. You are a lucky guy to live as close as you to do DWFII!

 

[glenjay]

I paid another visit to DW last weekend for another fitting. Because I had complained about the shoe fitting tight in the instep and a few other places, DW tried a different last and built me another pair of Fitters (this time in brown).

I don't think it is his normal practice to build multiple fitters models, but he wants to make sure it has been done right, no matter the effort, and I have to applaud this mentality.

During the second fitting we also discussed the style of the shoe and the shoe lining. I chose to go with a lining color to closly match the shoe color, although I had a number of colors to choose from.

We talked about the heel counter height and about changing the style to a wingtip adelaide (my suggestion), and DW thought the style change would work very well.


The first image shows the style changes, and the second image is the second fitters model he built for me.
The toe on the second fitters model will be shortened a little to look more like the first.

 

[LynahFaithful]

glenjay - great stuff..thanks for posting. It is very interesting to see the differing processes used by different makers.

 

[DWFII]

One of the reasons that I make my fitter's models out of scrap leather (aside from the fact that I generate a lot of surplus that might be used in a factory but which I don't consider prime) is that when a shoe is lasted it takes on the shape of the last. It even distorts to some extent. For example, the topline will stretch as the shoe is pulled over the last. But only so far. And once it is stretched it cannot be made smaller again should that be desired..

If a previously lasted "shell" is pulled over another, differently sized last, it will not seat itself the same as it did originally.

What's more, if the altered last is significantly different in in girth or length the patterns...that were designed directly from the original last...will not fit on the modified last as well as they could. This will not affect the fit so much--the internal shell will still reflect the last--but proportions can be hideously distorted.

Seeing how and where components...like a toe cap or heel counter...fit within the context of the entire shoe is a critical element in evaluating a fitter's model.

I recently designed the last that I am making GlenJay's shoe on. I had the models scanned and entered into a digital data base. Unfortunately, as much as I admire the lastmaker, he and I don't see quite eye to eye on where certain critical points are to be located. His database had entries for the heel to ball measurement that were not true to my designs. Once I realized that, I threw out the lastmaker's datum (just the one) and substituted what my designs said it should be and almost every one of Glenjay's reservations were addressed without much further modification.

Had I tried to relast the original fitter's model on the longer last it would have failed in every respect but most especially aesthetically.

 

[fritzl]

Originally Posted by glenjay

The first image shows the style changes, and the second image is the second fitters model he built for me.
The toe on the second fitters model will be shortened a little to look more like the first.

fwiw, i like the shape of the second model better.

what do you expect from the shortening of the toe?

 

[glenjay]

Originally Posted by fritzl

fwiw, i like the shape of the second model better.

what do you expect from the shortening of the toe?

The toe just felt a little long. The difference will be quite minor however, and should not detract from the overall look.

 

[glenjay]

As Promised:

From this:

To this:

Like this:

Insole being formed to bottom of last:

Insole formed, showing contours:

Insole trimmed, channeled, and "holed":

Patterns laid out on hide:

Edges folded and pieces assembled:

Ready to Last:

Lasted and inseamed:

Heel seat stitching:

Heel layers being pegged:

Tongue hand-stitched into a full cut liner:

Close-up of stitching. Note jump stitch over edge of quarter/instep piece:

Interior showing tonally similar lining:

Bottom finish:

Outsole hand stitched 10-11 stitched per inch:

Finished shoe from top:

My new Bespoke shoes:

All of the shoe construction images above were supplied to me by DW.

I owe DW a debt of gradititude, not only for creating a fantastic pair of bespoke shoes for me, but for taking the time to photograph the process for all of us.

Please feel free to ask any questions and/or express your opinion. I can try to answer from the perspective of purchaser and my input into design, and DW may be kind enough to answer questions from the builder/craftsman perspective.

 

[Wrigglez]

wow!, just wow.
DW you sure make some amazing footwear. wear them in good health

 

[Cary Grant]

Thanks for sharing the finished project

 

[Frodo]

Superb. "Too nice to wear" comes to mind! I've lusted over D. W. Frommer's boots on his website for years now. I'm glad he's on Style Forum. He's obviously one of America's, if not one of the world's, great cordwainers.