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Berluti-Very appealing to me :)

JohnMRobie

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You literally had a beautiful pair of lizard loafers custom made for 1600 dollars (less?) That are far better made and more aesthetically pleasing.
The idea that the Andy is some “ugly” shoe is laughable. It’s an iconic shoe that’s been copied ad nauseam and is based on a bespoke shoe that Olga Berluti made at the request of Andy Warhol.
 

JFWR

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The idea that the Andy is some “ugly” shoe is laughable. It’s an iconic shoe that’s been copied ad nauseam and is based on a bespoke shoe that Olga Berluti made at the request of Andy Warhol.

I'm aware Warhol commissioned it. I wouldn't call Warhol a paragon of good taste or of beauty. Avant garde, yes, but not good taste or beauty.


If you think this is great, I don't know what to tell you. It is overly patinated, it's got a square toe that looks out of place on a loafer, and it is twice the price of...


All of which are nicer.

Or:


Or:

 

allegro

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My point is you're not getting fully handmade for a price higher than bespoke. Also, Blake stitching generally is on lower end shoe wear, even though it's not a terrible method.

Like all things, we pay a premium for the extra customer service (like free change in colour, polishing services, staff responding to your questions very promptly), branches, and heritage as well. Of course, I can also get the bag I purchased independently made by someone in Europe with potentially a cheaper cost, but then I have to deal with importing issues, and if the product is not to my liking I need to return etc... I also have no connections so I need to spend time to do research as who might be able to do this for me.

It is the same thing with bespoke shoes, I probably need to fly to Europe first, get my feet measured etc... there are not many shoemakers I know in my area and there will be a long wait also. The cost in time and money will easily outweigh the purchase price. There may also be technical limitations in terms of what they are able to provide with respect to design and look.

If cost and performance are of primary concern, there are definitely brands that do better in this regard, but it is a different market I think. An example would be watches, a cheap Casio is going to tell better time than a meticulously handmade watch and one can also easily argue there is no point at all, as the primary focus of the watch is to tell time.

At end of the day, these luxury brands have their own style/way of doing things, and it is up to the individual to decide whether it is worth it for them or not. I could easily carry my laptop using a cheap plastic bag, but here I am appreciating this product as a piece of artwork that I personally value and enjoy.
 

JFWR

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Like all things, we pay a premium for the extra customer service (like free change in colour, polishing services, staff responding to your questions very promptly), branches, and heritage as well. Of course, I can also get the bag I purchased independently made by someone in Europe with potentially a cheaper cost, but then I have to deal with importing issues, and if the product is not to my liking I need to return etc... I also have no connections so I need to spend time to do research as who might be able to do this for me.

It is the same thing with bespoke shoes, I probably need to fly to Europe first, get my feet measured etc... there are not many shoemakers I know in my area and there will be a long wait also. The cost in time and money will easily outweigh the purchase price. There may also be technical limitations in terms of what they are able to provide with respect to design and look.

If cost and performance are of primary concern, there are definitely brands that do better in this regard, but it is a different market I think. An example would be watches, a cheap Casio is going to tell better time than a meticulously handmade watch and one can also easily argue there is no point at all, as the primary focus of the watch is to tell time.

At end of the day, these luxury brands have their own style/way of doing things, and it is up to the individual to decide whether it is worth it for them or not. I could easily carry my laptop using a cheap plastic bag, but here I am appreciating this product as a piece of artwork that I personally value and enjoy.

I have less of a problem with the bag. It's not my cup of tea, but okay. The shoes, though, just don't justify the 2.4k price tag.
 

allegro

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I'm aware Warhol commissioned it. I wouldn't call Warhol a paragon of good taste or of beauty. Avant garde, yes, but not good taste or beauty.


If you think this is great, I don't know what to tell you. It is overly patinated, it's got a square toe that looks out of place on a loafer, and it is twice the price of...


All of which are nicer.

Or:


Or:


I actually did not like any of the examples you gave LOL.... there is nothing special about these? At the end of the day, it comes to personal taste here, and there isn't going to be a right or wrong answer here.

Art is also an evolving concept. When Beethoven came to the music scene, his music was considered quite "rude" in extreme contrast to the volume he provided. Nowadays, very few, if any will find these rude at all. From my side, time is the best measurement of quality, the fact that Berluti has been in the business for so long, means they must have done something right that appeals to different people at different times.
 
Last edited:

JohnMRobie

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I'm aware Warhol commissioned it. I wouldn't call Warhol a paragon of good taste or of beauty. Avant garde, yes, but not good taste or beauty.


If you think this is great, I don't know what to tell you. It is overly patinated, it's got a square toe that looks out of place on a loafer, and it is twice the price of...


All of which are nicer.

Or:


Or:

They work just fine. Square toes and all.
71369F2F-97DF-469B-90DC-7942EB35EBB7.jpeg
 

JFWR

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They work just fine. Square toes and all. View attachment 1874236

Nice fit on the suit, but those loafers look ugly even in that context.

Congrats, you spent 2.4k to look like Andy Warhol.

You do you, bro. You got plenty of other nice shoes and I like your suits. This is not a general critique.
 

allegro

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I have less of a problem with the bag. It's not my cup of tea, but okay. The shoes, though, just don't justify the 2.4k price tag.
The bag can arguably not justify the $5900 AUD or $4000 USD price tag also :) Again it all comes down to personal taste and what the customer is willing to pay for these.
 

JohnMRobie

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Nice fit on the suit, but those loafers look ugly even in that context.

Congrats, you spent 2.4k to look like Andy Warhol.

You do you, bro. You got plenty of other nice shoes and I like your suits. This is not a general critique.
I have Alden, CJ and EG loafers. I like the Alden style and have a bespoke pair in process from a Japanese maker who specializes in an American aesthetic. They serve a different purpose from these. They have a different aesthetic. We long ago established that you prefer your shoes to be blobby and are a big AE fan. I don’t expect you to like them. You can find them ugly but they’re an iconic shoe they’ve been making quite successfully for 50 years.
13BC8363-030E-466F-8F67-F10B369E1DD6.jpeg


I’m also not aware of any of your fits you’ve shared or selections I wish to emulate so it is certainly a case of different strokes for different folks.
 

Proleet

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The bag can arguably not justify the $5900 AUD or $4000 USD price tag also :) Again it all comes down to personal taste and what the customer is willing to pay for these.

100% I don’t argue against that. I argued against the implied point by TS that Berluti are spectacular quality shoes while by all accounts that isn’t their strength. if I had to guess this statement comes from a lack of understanding or more broad experience with quality shoe brands.

I don’t even mind the blake construction method and find the typical SF complaints against it a bit of groupthink (especially as so few people here actually resole their shoes).
 

JFWR

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I have Alden, CJ and EG loafers. I like the Alden style and have a bespoke pair in process from a Japanese maker who specializes in an American aesthetic. They serve a different purpose from these. They have a different aesthetic. We long ago established that you prefer your shoes to be blobby and are a big AE fan. I don’t expect you to like them. You can find them ugly but they’re an iconic shoe they’ve been making quite successfully for 50 years. View attachment 1874238

I’m also not aware of any of your fits you’ve shared or selections I wish to emulate so it is certainly a case of different strokes for different folks.

I prefer American, English, and Central European styles in shoes and also in tailoring. I'd even go French like JM Weston. So yeah, different styles. I'm also not an avant garde guy. I'd rather look like pretty much anyone other than Andy Warhol. That's fine. We don't share the taste.

But your argument isn't a good one. Imitation doesn't mean it's good, it means it's popular. By your premises, the fact that every maker from Rockport to Cleverly is making dress sneakers, that this is good. I don't think you'd agree with that argument at all.
 

allegro

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100% I don’t argue against that. I argued against the implied point by TS that Berluti are spectacular quality shoes while by all accounts that isn’t their strength. if I had to guess this statement comes from a lack of understanding or more broad experience with quality shoe brands.

I don’t even mind the blake construction method and find the typical SF complaints against it a bit of groupthink (especially as so few people here actually resole their shoes).

From my side to have meaningful comparison on quality, it is important to define quality as well. Certainly there are always going to be trade offs, if customers want the famous patina Berluti is known for, then Venezia leather, despite being thinner and lighter, would be their leather of choice.

If we are focusing on durability as quality then it's a different ball game. For example this company offers 100 year warranty on their bags (https://saddlebackleather.com/warrantee/) at a price point that is a fraction of the cost of Berluti bags. But these bags don't really appeal to me because these are too cowboy like, and does not suit my general appearance. So in this context, quality also includes the aesthetics, which of course will not satisfy everyone :)

I do find it interesting that there are many objecting to Berluti style, I had a quick look and we have people like Picasso, Yves Saint Laurent all loved Berluti shoes. Of course, we are allowed to differ in our opinions as to what is beautiful and what is not beautiful. Certainly there are Berluti shoes that are not my cup of tea either, but this is true for all brands. There is never going to be a single brand where I love every single one of their products.
 

Wild Strawberry Rabbit

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I have Alden, CJ and EG loafers. I like the Alden style and have a bespoke pair in process from a Japanese maker who specializes in an American aesthetic. They serve a different purpose from these. They have a different aesthetic. We long ago established that you prefer your shoes to be blobby and are a big AE fan. I don’t expect you to like them. You can find them ugly but they’re an iconic shoe they’ve been making quite successfully for 50 years. View attachment 1874238

I’m also not aware of any of your fits you’ve shared or selections I wish to emulate so it is certainly a case of different strokes for different folks.
Better think outside the box and buy handwelted archibald shoes, best shoes on the planet ;)
 

gimpwiz

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What do folk here generally think about "cloning" items you like but with an unapproachable (to you, generally) price tag?

I know this gives me away as an uncultured pleb, but to follow up a previous line of conversation -- if I liked that bag, and wanted one, looking at a price tag of $4000, I have to imagine I could find a leather shop willing to make me one for far less money. A shop that already makes bags, and has a reputation for quality.

Is this gauche? Contributing to rip-off culture? Or do we just call this "inspired by," and for the price, make some changes to personalize it / customize it so we like it even more? Do we call it IP theft, or do we just say that it's a fairly basic shape and 'all good artists steal anyways'?
 

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