Berg and Berg

[othertravel]

Agreed. That was a bit of a bummer to see, from my perspective.

Interesting. How old is the jacket you have? My first B&B jacket was from SS17 if memory serves, and that was fully canvassed. Perhaps that was the Dan II model.

Not saying you're wrong, but I'm skeptical as to whether utility played the primary role (or even a role) in the choice to go HC, considering the B&B tailored pieces I have currently are essentially the same as today's drops, from a practical standpoint.

Admittedly, my POV may not be the most charitable.


BUT, I will say I do appreciate their willingness to go the full suit option with some of what I would consider riskier fabrics, namely the Sand and Taupe.

Yep, it was the Dan II model.

 

[Substanceoverstyle]

Half canvas is a disappointing turn, at basically the same price point as I can see. Besides, they mentioned in an interview with Permanent Style a few months ago they were moving up their prices because they were aiming at a higher quality.

 

[rasmusp]

The Dan IIs were full canvas, if I remember correctly.

The new shirts are also made in Portugal. I am pretty sure they used to be made in Italy. Not that that is necessarily better.

 

[Elch]

The overall direction of the change is at least irritating, if they indeed did advertise with quality improvement. May only be a Covid-issue - as far as I remember, their sale did not move all the inventory. Or someone looking to improve on the margins in the short run.

I really enjoyed the pants from fall/winter so I hope they don't take a turn for the worse. At least till next winter.

Off topic: Recommendations for OTR cavalry twill trousers with a higher rise?

 

[ericgereghty]

I'd love to know where consumers draw their red lines, price wise. The thinking has to be that "Made In Italy" carries serious weight, or that there is some hardcore brand loyalty. Full freight (admittedly, factoring in basic alterations) I'd be clocking in around $1700 or so with today's EUR/USD exchange rate. That's swimming in some fairly deep waters for me, particularly when it comes to RTW...and especially so when you consider the MTM/quasi-bespoke/real bespoke options in the same range...

 

[ClinkingThearly]

A 30€ price difference seems extremely marginal at nearly 900€ for a jacket, so that doesn't quite make sense to me. But in any case, also unfortunate to see that the Dan model is slimmer and longer.

I agree. I was expecting a bigger difference in price as they told me what I posted previously before it had gone live.

 

[Shetterd]

I'd love to know where consumers draw their red lines, price wise. The thinking has to be that "Made In Italy" carries serious weight, or that there is some hardcore brand loyalty. Full freight (admittedly, factoring in basic alterations) I'd be clocking in around $1700 or so with today's EUR/USD exchange rate. That's swimming in some fairly deep waters for me, particularly when it comes to RTW...and especially so when you consider the MTM/quasi-bespoke/real bespoke options in the same range...

Perhaps part of it is the exclusivity? The cloths are exclusive, they say, so perhaps the draw is having a full suit? But that must be somewhat niche.

 

[dieworkwear]

I'd love to know where consumers draw their red lines, price wise. The thinking has to be that "Made In Italy" carries serious weight, or that there is some hardcore brand loyalty. Full freight (admittedly, factoring in basic alterations) I'd be clocking in around $1700 or so with today's EUR/USD exchange rate. That's swimming in some fairly deep waters for me, particularly when it comes to RTW...and especially so when you consider the MTM/quasi-bespoke/real bespoke options in the same range...

I think starting price for a bespoke suit is usually at least double that amount, no?

$1,100 for a sport coat and $1,500 for a suit still seem very reasonable to me.

 

[rasmusp]

Berg&Berg is much cheaper than bespoke in Copenhagen, where you could easily pay $4000 for a odd jacket. An MTM jacket can be had at around the same price level as B&B.

I think the critique is more the rapid price increases (same as Drake's). In 2018SS the jackets were around €590 -- and a steal at that! Now jackets are €925. That's an increase of around 57% in three years in a world where inflation is at most 1.5% and wage growth is only slightly more.

It's probably still decent value and probably it's increasingly expensive to produce tailored clothing. But I understand the exasperation here and in the Drake's thread.

I personally don't like their recent odd jackets and have no use of a new suit, but would still consider getting either if the right one came along.

 

[ClinkingThearly]

I suppose some of what you’re paying for is their design too, they’ve worked to put together a cut and work with a factory plus as others have said they’ve developed exclusive cloths recently.

I think if it’s worth it to you then you’ll pay it, and if not then you won’t and it’s really that simple.

With their price what it is now plus the fact of having to pay tax and duty (thanks brexiteers) I am going to Anglo more. Having said that if Berg made the right thing, such as the olive cotton suit they have at the moment I still might be tempted.

 

[ericgereghty]

Perhaps part of it is the exclusivity? The cloths are exclusive, they say, so perhaps the draw is having a full suit? But that must be somewhat niche.

Perhaps, though I wouldn't necessarily rate that a plus. In fairness, I can only speak to their linen (no experience yet with their flannel or fresco equivalent options) fabric, but I would rate it a good deal below similar English and Italian cloths.

I think starting price for a bespoke suit is usually at least double that amount, no?

$1,100 for a sport coat and $1,500 for a suit still seem very reasonable to me.

Starting point? Nah. Of course, you can rapidly approach that benchmark in the realm of bespoke, and MTM.

As ever, it's all about what customers will spend. More power to you if you would, but I won't. Even at RTW, as there are competitors I'd consider superior in quality, and unquestionably so on the CS front.

In any event, I DO (though it may be hard to believe lol) like B&B, and think they make pretty solid stuff, on the whole.

 

[dieworkwear]

Starting point? Nah. Of course, you can rapidly approach that benchmark in the realm of bespoke, and MTM.

Where in the United States can you get a bespoke suit for $1,700?

 

[ericgereghty]

Where in the United States can you get a bespoke suit for $1,700?

I mean, Panta is a quick one, which, to my knowledge, still exists as an option. Certainly within that price range, give or take a few bucks. Even still, we're comparing apples to fuckin prunes, in this scenario. Can we just not, and save us both the time?
In any event, we've gone back and forth in the past about various quibbles one might have with B&B, though more on the service side of the spectrum. I really have no desire to do so again.
Give them your business if you see fit, or don't. It isn't my money you're spending

 

[dieworkwear]

I mean, Panta is a quick one, which, to my knowledge, still exists as an option. Certainly within that price range, give or take a few bucks. Even still, we're comparing apples to fuckin prunes, in this scenario. Can we just not, and save us both the time?
In any event, we've gone back and forth in the past about various quibbles one might have with B&B, though more on the service side of the spectrum. I really have no desire to do so again.
Give them your business if you see fit, or don't. It isn't my money you're spending

Uh ... no need to get defensive dude.

You mentioned up thread that $1,700 is around the same range as bespoke. (Panta is not $1,700 for a bespoke suit, btw). I only said that I don't think that's true -- bespoke is at least double that amount. Bespoke sport coats in the US generally start around $3,500 and then $4,500 for a suit. $1,000 for a sport coat and $1,500 for a suit is very mid-tier RTW.

 

[ericgereghty]

Uh ... no need to get defensive dude.

You mentioned up thread that $1,700 is around the same range as bespoke. (Panta is not $1,700 for a bespoke suit, btw). I only said that I don't think that's true -- bespoke is at least double that amount. Bespoke sport coats in the US generally start around $3,500 and then $4,500 for a suit. $1,000 for a sport coat and $1,500 for a suit is very mid-tier RTW.

Lol. I literally have a Panta suit in spitting distance of that range.
My lack of desire to engage in a tedious discussion (particularly one involving arbitrary restrictions I did not set) is hardly putting up walls.
As ever, if Berg & Berg presents itself to you as a good value buy, please do support them...and enjoy your Saturday.