Being well dressed and mannered when family isn't as much

[mensimageconsultant]

Something interesting just happened

Anyway, not that replies have been bad, but there was little if any practical talk about improving the situation. For example, don't wear a pocket square and wear black corduroy instead of the (possibly academic/elitist) brown version. And choose Italian loafers

 

[globetrotter]

I'm not reading all that. a few thoughts:


1. I dress better than my family and pretty much any of my friends and co-workers. I also eat better than most of them, and have a much better grasp of art and most culture. so what? those are my interests, and I don't try to force them on anybody else. sometimes my family and/or friends comment on my dress, and sometimes they joke about my taste, but it is simple jibes. I try not to attact attention at family events, and I try not to draw much or any attention to myself with my tastes.

2. my parents both grew up on subsitance farms during the depression. we were basically poor when I was young. they did the best they could, and my siblings have done the best they could. nobody has turned to crime or anything else that they should be ashamed of.

3. when I was younger and an idiot, I used to be more pretentious and more obvious about my tastes. now I am very careful to try to keep people as comfortable as possible. that is important.

 

[haganah]

Originally Posted by bowtielover

For me I had to change churches to find a better dressing one
Christ would truly be proud.

 

[lasbar]

Originally Posted by haganah

Christ would truly be proud.

I'm sure he will appreciate the spiritual depth of our sartorial conversations.

 

[epliohunk]

There is a thin line between looking down on a group of people (whether that be family, friends or co-workers) and simply outgrowing their social references and environment (if you come from the same one). The problem is, not everyone acknowledges and understands that the latter is possible, and that is why I believe situations where one is perceived as being elitist or pretentious happen.

Nowadays, it's fairly common that individuals are exposed to customs and ways of behaving that differ from those shared in their family or from the milieu in which they were brought up. Travel + education + exposition to culture + groups of reference influence how one perceives the world and decides to act in it.

Developing manners, ways of dressing, opinions, interests and perhaps a curiosity towards more abstract/"futile" things such as art or food - intentionally or not - that differ very much from those of the people you have known long before you have acquired such traits definitely engenders conflicting situations.

I personally live this situation and it goes much deeper than just being a snob. It's definitely hard, even frustrating, to try to relate to people that are supposed to be so close to you but yet who share so little common experiences, goals and views on the world. And this goes both ways, as much as you can't relate very much to those people, they can't relate to you and that's why they judge you (and you also judge them).

However, I believe one can work on that. I've personally learned to stop trying to educate them (do not read CHANGE here) because some people are simply not interested in that. They live their lives according to what they know, their frame of reference, and you live yours according to what you know.

 

[ProfessorShak]

So based on the above, most inspiring post, as well as many others, my solution is to (A)ditch the pocket square and wear black cord

(adding to the wiseguy profile since I already look Italian/Greek)

OR
(B)Just be myself and let them be, hope that they'll just accept it in spite of the negative treatment.

I''ll choose B since that's what i've already been doing

 

[Big Pun]

OP, you sound like a pretentious twat.

Originally Posted by bowtielover

I have to say I completley agree with you
^^First clue that, "you done fucked up kid" This made me laugh though:

Originally Posted by bowtielover

For me I had to change churches to find a better dressing one, and haev just learned to not let what others say bother me.
Jesus Christ. Please continue taking life too seriously, and having everyone making fun of you.

 

[matt22616]

I might have missed this because I'm new here, but is he dyslexic, perpetually shithammered, or is English his twelfth language?

 

[bluemagic]

Originally Posted by epliohunk

There is a thin line between looking down on a group of people (whether that be family, friends or co-workers) and simply outgrowing their social references and environment (if you come from the same one). The problem is, not everyone acknowledges and understands that the latter is possible, and that is why I believe situations where one is perceived as being elitist or pretentious happen.

Nowadays, it's fairly common that individuals are exposed to customs and ways of behaving that differ from those shared in their family or from the milieu in which they were brought up. Travel + education + exposition to culture + groups of reference influence how one perceives the world and decides to act in it.

Developing manners, ways of dressing, opinions, interests and perhaps a curiosity towards more abstract/"futile" things such as art or food - intentionally or not - that differ very much from those of the people you have known long before you have acquired such traits definitely engenders conflicting situations.

I personally live this situation and it goes much deeper than just being a snob. It's definitely hard, even frustrating, to try to relate to people that are supposed to be so close to you but yet who share so little common experiences, goals and views on the world. And this goes both ways, as much as you can't relate very much to those people, they can't relate to you and that's why they judge you (and you also judge them).

However, I believe one can work on that. I've personally learned to stop trying to educate them (do not read CHANGE here) because some people are simply not interested in that. They live their lives according to what they know, their frame of reference, and you live yours according to what you know.

Great post. Thank you for putting thought into what you wrote.

 

[BillyMaysHere!]

Originally Posted by epliohunk

There is a thin line between looking down on a group of people (whether that be family, friends or co-workers) and simply outgrowing their social references and environment (if you come from the same one). The problem is, not everyone acknowledges and understands that the latter is possible, and that is why I believe situations where one is perceived as being elitist or pretentious happen. Nowadays, it's fairly common that individuals are exposed to customs and ways of behaving that differ from those shared in their family or from the milieu in which they were brought up. Travel + education + exposition to culture + groups of reference influence how one perceives the world and decides to act in it. Developing manners, ways of dressing, opinions, interests and perhaps a curiosity towards more abstract/"futile" things such as art or food - intentionally or not - that differ very much from those of the people you have known long before you have acquired such traits definitely engenders conflicting situations. I personally live this situation and it goes much deeper than just being a snob. It's definitely hard, even frustrating, to try to relate to people that are supposed to be so close to you but yet who share so little common experiences, goals and views on the world. And this goes both ways, as much as you can't relate very much to those people, they can't relate to you and that's why they judge you (and you also judge them). However, I believe one can work on that. I've personally learned to stop trying to educate them (do not read CHANGE here) because some people are simply not interested in that. They live their lives according to what they know, their frame of reference, and you live yours according to what you know.
I believe that, as well thought out and well meaning it may be, there is a definite amount of pretentiousness and snobbery to this post. There are some points to it, but diferent people can still appreciate in some form that the other has a different harmless mindset. I'm a very "artsy, cultured and trendy" guy, who has many distinct differences with almost all around me. I'm a university student studying journalism, about to specialise in either visual arts, music or fashion, I'm left wing, have at times proudly refered to myself as democratic socialist and dress in a (at times) obviously fashionable form. (Not saying those are the traits of being well educated or intelligent, just that I'm different to the average joe) Of the people I meet, from the cool crowds and the hipsters, to the other uni students in my arts and journ classes, to my family, my old friends (pretty much my exact opposite) etc., almost all consider me a great guy who's intelligent, has some very interesting view points and has lots of good info to share. I think the problem most people with this situation have comes from either one of two situations. A) You talk down to them in some fashion, or think of yourself as better than others, wether you state it or not B) Your diferences aren't something you've always had, or even for very long and the sudden, seemingly odd change temporarily jars the people around you as they adapt. This phase gets exacerbated by the usually awkward manner the changing person will have as he adapts himself. This is just my 2 cents, my opinion.

Originally Posted by bowtielover

I have to say I completley agree with you
If this comment from this user happens, HAVE A GOOD LOOK AT YOURSELF.

 

[FidelCashflow]

Originally Posted by ProfessorShak

When sitting for dinner, they stare at my plate and if there's nothing there, they start putting things on my plate and tell me that "I'm not eating" even after I've just eaten my fill. To me that's just rude but I don't say anything, but they get upset when I don't eat what they think I should be eating. Thats just an example of what I meant by manners.

You're really going to whine about this? This is called being part of a family. Get over it.

Originally Posted by ProfessorShak

There is much more to it and I can't write it all out but I've been called "yuppie" or "elitisit" simply because I looked different than what they're used to. I don't criticize or try to educate them, it's not my place. But they tend to critique me as if I'm doing something wrong. Like I said, A corduroy jacket and jeans to them was me being dressed up.

Like other people here, I'm guessing it probably has less to do with your clothing and more to do with your personality. You're emitting an air of pompousness even over the internet. That's not a good sign.

Originally Posted by ProfessorShak

PS Does caring about how I'm presenting myself to the world make me better than them? If so why is that wrong?

It's simple. You attracting attention to yourself by being over-dressed for any occasion is as inappropriate as them attracting attention to themselves by being under-dressed for any occasion.

Originally Posted by Looch

Sounds like you are in fact simply better than them.

Jeebus.... this is the last thing the OP needs to hear.

Originally Posted by Big Pun

This made me laugh though:

Jesus Christ.

Dammit! You put it in your sig before I could!

 

[ProfessorShak]

I'm sorry if you sense pompousness coming across here but its not my fault if actions are mistaken (like opening the door for someone or being polite and saying "please" and "thank you") To some I suppose being a "gentleman" in this day and age would be considered pompous.

I've spoken to a few close family peers and they provided some clarity. They described me as a "gentleman" (I'm not sure I'm deserving of that title) But being a "gentleman" in my community is unheard of. To paraphrase my sister-in-law 'Any man who is polite, well spoken, mannered and takes care of himself is intimidating to a culture in which men are more like cavemen' (the last bit had me on the floor) She introduced me to a couple of guys who were in the same boat and knew exactly what's going on.

While we're all entitled to our judgements and opinions, that doesn't neccessarily make then accurate. So if you want to judge me at least offer some objectivity. I could say MANY of the SFers that I've encountered here are pompous pricks but I remind myself not to judge.

I wanted to know how others handled situations where their family values in dress and manners were much different than theirs in a way that made their family think of you as pretentious. Should I eat the steak with my hands because thats what they do? Should I start wearing my cellphone on my belt and my keys on the loop to fit in? Until I got my BA and got my first REAL job in a corp. environment, my sense of style fit in with theirs because I didn't have anyone who would teach me. But I learned and discovered myself and what works for me and in return, I get scorned.

I don't think myself better or worse, but DEFINITLY different than their norm. How people deal with that is something Id like to know.

 

[mensimageconsultant]

Maybe they'll leave you alone when you are older. For now, why can't you leave out the pocket square when in their territory? Also, while black in corduroy is not wiseguy wear, maybe dark gray (anything) is close enough to black to be acceptable to them.

 

[lasbar]

Originally Posted by ProfessorShak

I'm sorry if you sense pompousness coming across here but its not my fault if actions are mistaken (like opening the door for someone or being polite and saying "please" and "thank you") To some I suppose being a "gentleman" in this day and age would be considered pompous.

I've spoken to a few close family peers and they provided some clarity. They described me as a "gentleman" (I'm not sure I'm deserving of that title) But being a "gentleman" in my community is unheard of. To paraphrase my sister-in-law 'Any man who is polite, well spoken, mannered and takes care of himself is intimidating to a culture in which men are more like cavemen' (the last bit had me on the floor) She introduced me to a couple of guys who were in the same boat and knew exactly what's going on.

While we're all entitled to our judgements and opinions, that doesn't neccessarily make then accurate. So if you want to judge me at least offer some objectivity. I could say MANY of the SFers that I've encountered here are pompous pricks but I remind myself not to judge.

I wanted to know how others handled situations where their family values in dress and manners were much different than theirs in a way that made their family think of you as pretentious. Should I eat the steak with my hands because thats what they do? Should I start wearing my cellphone on my belt and my keys on the loop to fit in? Until I got my BA and got my first REAL job in a corp. environment, my sense of style fit in with theirs because I didn't have anyone who would teach me. But I learned and discovered myself and what works for me and in return, I get scorned.

I don't think myself better or worse, but DEFINITLY different than their norm. How people deal with that is something Id like to know.




Being different is always a challenge...

Your perceived difference could have been racial , social, demographical ,cultural and you would have been facing the same type of rejection or perceived rejection.

It is human nature at its worst...

Some people do not like being challenged in their views of the world...

You're just different and do not ever change to please them...

If they can't appreciate your sartorial /cultural visions , they're not worth the effort.

 

[apropos]

What culture/ethnicity does you/your family come from?