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Beckham signs for LA Galaxy!

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by benecios, Jan 11, 2007.

  1. Tokyo Slim

    Tokyo Slim In Time Out

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    TS - You love American football, don't you?! You've clearly given this a lot of thought, and have constructed some seemingly sound arguments. Your passion is admirable, but it almost seems that deep down you suffer from an inferiority complex for your chosen sport. Why not 'live and let live'? For every cogent point made, the other side can come back and with an equally convincing counterargument. There is nothing inherent in the game that prevents Americans from loving soccer. We've embraced any number of arguably 'boring' sports and become passionate about them, not because they have 'discernible action' or 'quantifiable stats', but because as kids we grew up playing them and watching/following a glamorous professional league w/ big name stars. Do you think the rest of the world is so stupid as to love a 'boring, low scoring game that ____ (fill in your favorite criticisms)? Soccer will never catch on in the U.S. until there is a sustained pro league w/ superstars for the kids/fans to look up to. That is what the NASL was trying to accomplish in the 70's, and what the MLS is trying to do now. They've got a long, hard row to hoe, but soccer's popularity in the U.S. has come a long way in one generation. Football and soccer are very different games with different appeals. Arguing so vehemently that one is 'better' than the other is kind of silly when you think about it. Remember, they're both just kids' games being played by overpaid men. [​IMG]
    I am a basketfull of inferiority complexes, and thats the most American thing of all! To be honest, I sort of like watching soccer with other people, and I enjoyed playing it. I'm just trying to make the point (repeatedly and without much success) that soccer is not the be-all and end all of pro sports, and that American Football, while not perfect, is a lot more interesting game than people (who don't watch it and understand it) give it credit for. Plus, I'm the smartest man alive, so therefore my favorite game must be the best one ever. End of story. [​IMG]
     


  2. Tokyo Slim

    Tokyo Slim In Time Out

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    . I don't really want to get involved in this argument as it is futile to compare two completely different sports but I have to address this point.Watching my home town team last month(Man Utd the biggest sporting club in the WORLD,fact)the opposition were attacking and hit the post,15 seconds later we had gone up the other end and scored.So suggesting it takes 90 minutes to get up the field is absurd.
    As a retort to this - between 01/01/07 and 01/02/07 Premiership scores tell me that 12 out of 20 teams took longer than 45 mintues to score a goal. That is more than half, just in case you weren't sure. And eight of those teams took longer than 90 minutes to "get down the field and score". IE - did not score. There were four ties, two of which were 0-0. I rest my case.
    Why is it inappropriate to discuss a sport played between two teams of competitors in terms of offense, defense, strategy, and etc? What terminology would you rather I use for a contest where (according to other soccer fans, whom I still don't necessarily believe) the object of the game is to win. If the object of the game is to win, some combination of offense, defense, individual play, team play, and coaching are going to do it, just like in any other sport... why am I not allowed to talk about it? The only reason for not talking about it in these terms would be if the object of the game were to be graceful and be a genius at physical control of yourself and the ball, and scoring points was not important. If the game is a transcendant art, and points are secondary in importance, then I understand... but the fans insistance that it is about winning and losing, but that you cannot discuss the mechanics of how it is accomplished makes no sense. Do you think that soccer coaches instruct their players by chiding them on their overeagerness to score? Yes, you need to concentrate on being fluid with the ball, being able to pinpoint a through pass, being able to acrobatically maneuver the ball around the defenders, but this is not offense - this is an exhibition of carefully honed skills. The second you use them to attempt to score points in a team sport, however, it becomes offense. Trying to stop someone from scoring points in a team sport is called defense. You have a problem with the words, talk to the queen, you guys created them, not us. [​IMG] Wayne Rooney is terribly ungraceful with the ball, he must be the worst soccer player Man U has. At least they got rid of that clumsy oaf Ruud Van Nistelrooy, all that guy could do was sit by the goal and put the ball in the net 95 times in five seasons. Not a good player, that one. Is self-delusion an integral part of the game of Soccer?
     


  3. WN2

    WN2 Senior member

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    Watching soccer on TV is like watching sex on TV. If you want to have the real experience you need to go out and do it for real. The US doesn't have a real series division system that every other country has, and that is the biggest problem in my (uneducated) opinion. In MLS you have a dozen of teams and the aim of the whole league is to make money, not to really compete. The passion is missing and with it the best reason to enjoy the game and support your team.
     


  4. Tokyo Slim

    Tokyo Slim In Time Out

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    Watching soccer on TV is like watching sex on TV. If you want to have the real experience you need to go out and do it for real.
    Agreed. As I've been saying, its not a very good sport to watch on television either, the players are too spread out. It is a fun sport to play though, if it weren't fun, I doubt anyone would play.
     


  5. benecios

    benecios Senior member

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    As a retort to this - between 01/01/07 and 01/02/07 Premiership scores tell me that 12 out of 20 teams took longer than 45 mintues to score a goal. That is more than half, just in case you weren't sure. And eight of those teams took longer than 90 minutes to "get down the field and score". IE - did not score. There were four ties, two of which were 0-0.

    I rest my case.



    Why is it inappropriate to discuss a sport played between two teams of competitors in terms of offense, defense, strategy, and etc?

    What terminology would you rather I use for a contest where (according to other soccer fans, whom I still don't necessarily believe) the object of the game is to win. If the object of the game is to win, some combination of offense, defense, individual play, team play, and coaching are going to do it, just like in any other sport... why am I not allowed to talk about it?

    The only reason for not talking about it in these terms would be if the object of the game were to be graceful and be a genius at physical control of yourself and the ball, and scoring points was not important. If the game is a transcendant art, and points are secondary in importance, then I understand... but the fans insistance that it is about winning and losing, but that you cannot discuss the mechanics of how it is accomplished makes no sense. Do you think that soccer coaches instruct their players by chiding them on their overeagerness to score? Yes, you need to concentrate on being fluid with the ball, being able to pinpoint a through pass, being able to acrobatically maneuver the ball around the defenders, but this is not offense - this is an exhibition of carefully honed skills. The second you use them to attempt to score points in a team sport, however, it becomes offense. Trying to stop someone from scoring points in a team sport is called defense. You have a problem with the words, talk to the queen, you guys created them, not us. [​IMG]

    Wayne Rooney is terribly ungraceful with the ball, he must be the worst soccer player Man U has. At least they got rid of that clumsy oaf Ruud Van Nistelrooy, all that guy could do was sit by the goal and put the ball in the net 95 times in five seasons. Not a good player, that one.


    Is self-delusion an integral part of the game of Soccer?


    Yeah Wayne Rooney is rubbish??
    As for RVN we are really missing him,since he left we are now top of the Premiership by 6 points.There are no longer arguments and bad feeling in the dressing room,its terrible.
    When Sir Alex says your time is up,he rarely gets it wrong.David Beckham is a perfect example.RVN's legs had gone pure and simple.
    You can protest all you like about your understanding of football but that last paragraph tells me all I need to know.[​IMG]
     


  6. benecios

    benecios Senior member

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    As a retort to this - between 01/01/07 and 01/02/07 Premiership scores tell me that 12 out of 20 teams took longer than 45 mintues to score a goal. That is more than half, just in case you weren't sure. And eight of those teams took longer than 90 minutes to "get down the field and score". IE - did not score. There were four ties, two of which were 0-0.

    I rest my case.



    Why is it inappropriate to discuss a sport played between two teams of competitors in terms of offense, defense, strategy, and etc?

    What terminology would you rather I use for a contest where (according to other soccer fans, whom I still don't necessarily believe) the object of the game is to win. If the object of the game is to win, some combination of offense, defense, individual play, team play, and coaching are going to do it, just like in any other sport... why am I not allowed to talk about it?

    The only reason for not talking about it in these terms would be if the object of the game were to be graceful and be a genius at physical control of yourself and the ball, and scoring points was not important. If the game is a transcendant art, and points are secondary in importance, then I understand... but the fans insistance that it is about winning and losing, but that you cannot discuss the mechanics of how it is accomplished makes no sense. Do you think that soccer coaches instruct their players by chiding them on their overeagerness to score? Yes, you need to concentrate on being fluid with the ball, being able to pinpoint a through pass, being able to acrobatically maneuver the ball around the defenders, but this is not offense - this is an exhibition of carefully honed skills. The second you use them to attempt to score points in a team sport, however, it becomes offense. Trying to stop someone from scoring points in a team sport is called defense. You have a problem with the words, talk to the queen, you guys created them, not us. [​IMG]

    Wayne Rooney is terribly ungraceful with the ball, he must be the worst soccer player Man U has. At least they got rid of that clumsy oaf Ruud Van Nistelrooy, all that guy could do was sit by the goal and put the ball in the net 95 times in five seasons. Not a good player, that one.


    Is self-delusion an integral part of the game of Soccer?


    http://davesrants.com/2006/05/14/ame...f-fa-cup-final

    This might sound normal to you but to us its hilarious.I believe its actually Canadian but as the guy says the US commentary is much worse.

    When you try to stop people scoring it is called defending and when you try to score a goal it is called attacking,at least it is where the game was invented.
     


  7. benecios

    benecios Senior member

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  8. romafan

    romafan Senior member

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  9. matadorpoeta

    matadorpoeta Senior member

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    when we have these soccer vs. u.s. sports debates there is always someone who says we are idiots for calling it soccer and not football. let's clear this up once and for all. as far as i know, the word "soccer" was not invented by americans. it came from england, and there used to be a british soccer magazine called "world soccer."

    in mexico, we normally call it fútbol, but sometimes call it fútbol soccer. we got both words from the british miners and rail workers that were in mexico in the late 1800s.
     


  10. Tokyo Slim

    Tokyo Slim In Time Out

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    Yeah Wayne Rooney is rubbish?? As for RVN we are really missing him,since he left we are now top of the Premiership by 6 points.There are no longer arguments and bad feeling in the dressing room,its terrible. When Sir Alex says your time is up,he rarely gets it wrong.David Beckham is a perfect example.RVN's legs had gone pure and simple. You can protest all you like about your understanding of football but that last paragraph tells me all I need to know.[​IMG]
    What exactly does it tell you? That I can be sarcastic? If you didn't know that already, you clearly haven't been paying attention. You DO remember that I am probably this boards biggest RVN fan. I think he's primed for a come back.
     


  11. Tokyo Slim

    Tokyo Slim In Time Out

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    When you try to stop people scoring it is called defending and when you try to score a goal it is called attacking,at least it is where the game was invented.
    I'm assuming that you don't mean the earliest recorded "a team of players kicking a ball around a field and attempting to put it in a goal" sport (which was in China and Japan in the 2000 BC's) To expound upon the previous query as to the origins of the word "soccer": The modern version which was "invented" by the Football Association in England in the 1800's, And called soccer, Which came from the descriptor assoc'er (as in "association football") to differentiate it from "rugby football", which was the competing set of rules for what was then essentially the same game. Before the Rugby union walked out of the FA meetings, depending on where you played, you were allowed to trip, bite, gouge eyes, and carry the ball in "football". Now that the history lesson is over, I'd like to point out that offense and defense are the words in the language that "invented the game" for describing exactly what I'm using them for. (ŏf'ĕns') Sports. 1. The means or tactics used in attempting to score. 2. A team in possession of the ball or puck, or those players whose primary duty is to attempt to score. 3. Scoring ability or potential. Middle English, from Old French ofense, from Latin offēnsa, from feminine past participle of offendere, to offend. (dē'fĕns') Sports. 1. Means or tactics used in trying to stop the opposition from scoring. 2. The team or those players on the team attempting to stop the opposition from scoring. Middle English, from Old French, from Latin dēfēnsa, from feminine past participle of dēfendere, to ward off.
     


  12. odoreater

    odoreater Senior member

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    For some reason, I always thought that the MLS had a salary cap and I thought they instituted the salary cap to prevent the MLS from being doomed for the same reasons that the NASL was doomed - that is, a few teams who can afford it buying major players and then winning every championship, while other teams languish.
     


  13. countdemoney

    countdemoney Senior member

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    For some reason, I always thought that the MLS had a salary cap and I thought they instituted the salary cap to prevent the MLS from being doomed for the same reasons that the NASL was doomed - that is, a few teams who can afford it buying major players and then winning every championship, while other teams languish.


    This is mostly true. They have basically changed to include something of a "Larry Bird Rule" where a team can exceed the cap for one player. Becks is the first to be signed under this new rule.

    Also, MLS is actually doing okay financially, and they have put up several soccer specific stadiums in Columbus and Chicago among other places. I expect to see them continue their slow but steady build up.
     


  14. odoreater

    odoreater Senior member

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    This is mostly true. They have basically changed to include something of a "Larry Bird Rule" where a team can exceed the cap for one player. Becks is the first to be signed under this new rule.

    Also, MLS is actually doing okay financially, and they have put up several soccer specific stadiums in Columbus and Chicago among other places. I expect to see them continue their slow but steady build up.


    A soccer specific stadium for the Redbulls to be built in Harrison, NJ is also in the works. Incidentally, one of the conditions for the State of New Jersey contributing money to the new stadium is that the team will have to either call itself the New Jersey Redbulls, or return to calling itself the NY/NJ Redbulls.

    I thought I heard something about the rule you mentioned. It's probably not a bad idea. With Becks now coming to MLS, it might be possible to get a higher quality set of "has-beens" coming to MLS. Instead of guys like Donadoni and Hristo Stoichkov, it may be possible to get guys like Zidane or even a Figo to come to other MLS teams. Obviously, if this works out for the Galaxy as far as marketing or whatever, other teams might be inclined to bring in bigger names.
     


  15. benecios

    benecios Senior member

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    What exactly does it tell you? That I can be sarcastic? If you didn't know that already, you clearly haven't been paying attention.

    You DO remember that I am probably this boards biggest RVN fan. I think he's primed for a come back.


    I do know you are a big RVN fan and so was I but as I said his legs had gone.On top of that I think he had lost interest so the time was right for him to go.
     


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