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Austro-Hungarian school of shoemaking

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by fritzl, Feb 26, 2008.

  1. rapad

    rapad Active Member

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    I have some handmade shoes from Austria/Hungary , unfortunately used.
    Do you think I could sell them ?
     


  2. comrade

    comrade Senior member

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    Received this masterpiece from Fritzl and absolutely happy nowadays - I've found a new love!
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    They fit well, I can even say that too perfect for the non-bespoke shoes and have a stunning construction. Sure they are not the most elegant shoes in the world but they are the most comfortable shoes I've ever owned without any exception.
    I'm also inspired by the soft leather and stitching quality. Gyula Kiss has a golden hands! Wish him good health!

    Don't be afraid to support 'operation paprika'. Fritzl is a real Gentleman, selling the best shoes at the best price. They'd definitely exceed your expectations.

    Danke schön for the great laces!


    Beautiful. They have great character.
     


  3. comrade

    comrade Senior member

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    B.S....that Scheer post off of Centipede could have easily been made today by Fosters, Cleverley or G&G given its gorgeous shape....I'm surprised I missed this one off of Centipede's site. The look is what I thought was classic English...but it appears you have given me insight as to what the Austrian's were once capable of making to compete with the English

    As far as I recall, on a visit to Vienna four years ago, Scheer, Materna, Balint, etc
    still produce some models, as well as bespoke, which could be taken for classic
    English, at least to my inexpert eyes. They also, of course, make traditional
    Austro-Hungarian shoes, and in the case of Vass in Budapest, shoes that
    could pass for Italian.
     


  4. fritzl

    fritzl Senior member

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    Received this masterpiece from Fritzl and absolutely happy nowadays - I've found a new love!
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    They fit well, I can even say that too perfect for the non-bespoke shoes and have a stunning construction. Sure they are not the most elegant shoes in the world but they are the most comfortable shoes I've ever owned without any exception.
    I'm also inspired by the soft leather and stitching quality. Gyula Kiss has a golden hands! Wish him good health!

    Don't be afraid to support 'operation paprika'. Fritzl is a real Gentleman, selling the best shoes at the best price. They'd definitely exceed your expectations.

    Danke schön for the great laces!


    the definition of bespoke has discussed around the forum ad nauseum.

    i'll tell what occured to me working with master kiss.

    i met mr. kiss first in 1994. he is not a man of big words. he is a very decent person, who loves his craft. he measured my feet, i choose the style and he told me to return in a month or so. i ordered a black full brogue and a half brogue to have the staples fixed. in europe, especially vienna, it is not unusual to wear brogues with suits. members, who have already visited vienna should be able to confirm this. upon my return, i received two pair of very nice shoes. certainly, they are still in my rotation.

    in retrospective, i would describe his approach to shoemaking as follows. due to his long time experience, he can read a foot like he reads in a book. so if you have quite normal feet, he uses a standard last for your "first" pair. if these fit, the last is marked and comes in separate storage. if there is a longer period between the subsequent orders, you'll be measured again.

    just in case somebody is curious, why i didn't get my personal last made after his presettings. he always said: i have lasts, no worries.

    so all the shoes he made are single pieces customized to the demands of the person who ordered shoes with him. he is operating after his own system, cause he is the only person who works on the shoes. fwiw, that was always an important fact to me.

    "operation paprika"

    i wouldn't have started this project, if i couldn't trust in the product.

    fortunately i got the confidence from members at sf, too. to name them: iammatt, dopey, binge, cunning smeagol, srivats, sergun, marcus and last but not least sterling gillette.

    preorders by: voxsartoria, grimslade, gnatty8 etc.

    in my point of view this is a lot of confidence. thanks a lot, gentleman
     


  5. Sterling Gillette

    Sterling Gillette Senior member

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    Unfortunately, I don't have accss to my camera's memory where I am currently but my new Kiss Norwegers are superb. The fit is outstanding and unlike any shoe I've worn so far. Additionally, the last is not at all gunboat-y, au contraire: Comparing them with my most elegant shoes (by Münchener Schuhwerkstätten) I was surprised how sleek and narrow Matser Kiss's pice of art looked.

    Of course, fritzl is a real expert on hungarian shoes and a pleasure to deal with. I met him personally (given the distance of a 1.5-hour drive) and had a fun time chatting about shoemakers and SF groupthink while sipping an excellent cup of real (read: Austrian) coffee.

    These are not my last pair of Kiss for sure!

    (Pics to come)
     


  6. gnatty8

    gnatty8 Senior member

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    Unfortunately, I don't have accss to my camera's memory where I am currently but my new Kiss Norwegers are superb. The fit is outstanding and unlike any shoe I've worn so far. Additionally, the last is not at all gunboat-y, au contraire: Comparing them with my most elegant shoes (by Münchener Schuhwerkstätten) I was surprised how sleek and narrow Matser Kiss's pice of art looked.

    Of course, fritzl is a real expert on hungarian shoes and a pleasure to deal with. I met him personally (given the distance of a 1.5-hour drive) and had a fun time chatting about shoemakers and SF groupthink while sipping an excellent cup of real (read: Austrian) coffee.

    These are not my last pair of Kiss for sure!

    (Pics to come)


    Looking forward to seeing them!!
     


  7. Sterling Gillette

    Sterling Gillette Senior member

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    Gnatty, they're this pair:
    personal meet up with a fellow sf'er for the "fitting" procedure. looking forward to it [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I've worn them a couple of times since I have them and they just keep getting better and better with every minute of wearing and every layer of Kiwi wax.
     


  8. luk-cha

    luk-cha Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    the definition of bespoke has discussed around the forum ad nauseum.

    i'll tell what occured to me working with master kiss.

    i met mr. kiss first in 1994. he is not a man of big words. he is a very decent person, who loves his craft. he measured my feet, i choose the style and he told me to return in a month or so. i ordered a black full brogue and a half brogue to have the staples fixed. in europe, especially vienna, it is not unusual to wear brogues with suits. members, who have already visited vienna should be able to confirm this. upon my return, i received two pair of very nice shoes. certainly, they are still in my rotation.

    in retrospective, i would describe his approach to shoemaking as follows. due to his long time experience, he can read a foot like he reads in a book. so if you have quite normal feet, he uses a standard last for your "first" pair. if these fit, the last is marked and comes in separate storage. if there is a longer period between the subsequent orders, you'll be measured again.

    just in case somebody is curious, why i didn't get my personal last made after his presettings. he always said: i have lasts, no worries.

    so all the shoes he made are single pieces customized to the demands of the person who ordered shoes with him. he is operating after his own system, cause he is the only person who works on the shoes. fwiw, that was always an important fact to me.

    "operation paprika"

    i wouldn't have started this project, if i couldn't trust in the product.

    fortunately i got the confidence from members at sf, too. to name them: iammatt, dopey, binge, cunning smeagol, srivats, sergun, marcus and last but not least sterling gillette.

    preorders by: voxsartoria, grimslade, gnatty8 etc.

    in my point of view this is a lot of confidence. thanks a lot, gentleman



    the process Fritzl discribed above is i think in many cases the general way to make MTM shoes. Here in HK all of the shoe makers follow a simular process, perhaps the only difference is once the have modify the last to your measurements then they will give you a cloth fitting shoe to check on the fit.

    i dont think it makes the shoe any more or less bespoke it just give the maker the chance to be able to reuse your last if you decide not to but future shoes from them, so this help save cost and then these savings also can be passed on to the customer too!
     


  9. fritzl

    fritzl Senior member

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    the process Fritzl discribed above is i think in many cases the general way to make MTM shoes. Here in HK all of the shoe makers follow a simular process, perhaps the only difference is once the have modify the last to your measurements then they will give you a cloth fitting shoe to check on the fit.

    i dont think it makes the shoe any more or less bespoke it just give the maker the chance to be able to reuse your last if you decide not to but future shoes from them, so this help save cost and then these savings also can be passed on to the customer too!


    luk-cha, thank you for your "support". being one of the few bespoke customers here, your opinion weighs in immense.

    you made two excellent points.

    more or less bespoke [​IMG] fiddlesticks, mr. kiss is a so called one-man-show, so he focused on, what he can do best - making excellent derbies on the viennese last. that's a good business model.

    the cost factor is not unimportant for a small operation like the one from mr. kiss. also do his customers appreciate the price level, he could hold over the years. iirc, from 94 to now, the increase was around 10%. that's more than fair.

    ps: luk-cha, i am really glad, that you pushed me to open this topic, that's why i put the link to the first post here.
     


  10. Sterling Gillette

    Sterling Gillette Senior member

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    I think that there are generally far more different concepts of what is often generalised as "bespoke" than the majority here thinks.
     


  11. fritzl

    fritzl Senior member

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    these have been taken off of my hands by a friend. his comment: you are my hero...

    another happy supporter of the cause, thank you

    [​IMG]
     


  12. fritzl

    fritzl Senior member

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    while holding up a private trunk show in vienna a few days ago, a friend of mine mentioned, that he owns a pair Mr. Kiss made for him in 1990.

    today, i received some pics. admittedly, they need some tlc. on the other hand, they never saw a repair shop. that speaks imo for their quality.

    [​IMG]

    no need to say, that they have a lot of mileage taken in the two decades. [​IMG]


    i finally received them last week and i am glad to say. they are fantastic. imo, it overrules, that "custom made" shoes are only for one person.

    they are on the way to my cobbler to get some bits and pieces done. upon their return, i will rebuild the footbed. a nice alternation, sitting on the balcony and enjoying a sundowner on an golden autumn evening.

    ps: cross post from shoe pron & shoes with character
     


  13. luk-cha

    luk-cha Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    i finally received them last week and i am glad to say. they are fantastic. imo, it overrules, that "custom made" shoes are only for one person.

    they are on the way to my cobbler to get some bits and pieces done. upon their return, i will rebuild the footbed. a nice alternation, sitting on the balcony and enjoying a sundowner on an golden autumn evening.

    ps: cross post from shoe pron & shoes with character


    looks like they need some trees in there ;-)
     


  14. fritzl

    fritzl Senior member

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    The sales assistant Andy pointed out to me that Cleverley was selling off a few bespoke and semi-bespoke shoes that had either not been picked up by clients or were ex-display. In the case of the bespoke shoes, that meant a reduction in price from £2000-£2500 to £300-£500.
    source: permanent style blog

    so what's the deal?

    cleverley can, and others cannot???

    discuss
     


  15. luk-cha

    luk-cha Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    The sales assistant Andy pointed out to me that Cleverley was selling off a few bespoke and semi-bespoke shoes that had either not been picked up by clients or were ex-display. In the case of the bespoke shoes, that meant a reduction in price from £2000-£2500 to £300-£500.
    source: permanent style blog

    so what's the deal?

    cleverley can, and others cannot???

    discuss


    yes i know this is true for cleverley but i have not heard it for anyone else, but in some ways it does make sense to sell them off better than chucking them out!
     


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