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Australian Members

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by earthdragon, Nov 18, 2008.

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  1. ColdEyedPugilist

    ColdEyedPugilist Senior member

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    They look great, Jase. :slayer:

    Been thinking of getting a pair for a while; might pull the trigger when the cash comes in again.

    If you can get Carminas in, that would be awesome!!
     
  2. bhall41

    bhall41 Senior member

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    Yep, they're lovely. I like the last too. Enjoy.
     
  3. wishiwasricher

    wishiwasricher Senior member

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    That would be awesome if you get the Carmina's in. I just purchased a Herringbone suit yesterday so i am moving on to shoes and your pics yesterday of the Carmina Simpson last inspired me to look more into them.

    Good luck with it and let us know! Im sure lots of people on SF will be happy!
     
  4. Selvaggio

    Selvaggio Senior member

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    I thought that coherent combinations thread was an intersting read. FC makes mention that there are all sorts of culturally specific considerations which come into play and I think that is very true when you try to apply his ideas to Australia.

    So much so that I don't know if the idea that an outfit resides somehwere on a spectrum between country and city is actually that useful for Australia now (though it may have been once).

    I look around me and see a great many badly dressed people. Not that I am that bothered by it. This is Australia and I think most people (gross generalisation alert) just don't think that much about how they are going to dress.

    Obviously, the readership here is different. If I could affect some change if dress standards in our part of the world (and I apply this to myself as well) it would be to strive for better understanding of fit and proportion firstly and quality secondly. City/country coherence "coherence" would rank some considerable way back.

    Why? A great many of us live in cities and work in white collar jobsso there is a strong bias towards "city". I don't look around and see many patch pockets, knit ties, brown shoes, flannel, lighter coloured suits or other expirmentation with country elements. I do see a lot of 'bad' city dressing because shirts are too big, ties are horrible and/or out of proportion, trousers and sleeves way too long etc. Even when guys get it right, they are often let down by bad/scuffed shoes.

    The only coherence issue which pops up a bit, is men wearing casualish shoes with business suits (eg square toes or aladdin shapes) - but they are normally black.

    The other reason is that this coherence idea is less relvant to us is that I don't think the country/casual end of the spectrum actually exists for us in the way it might in the UK or the North East of the USA. The concept of a casual/week end suit, well I won't say it doesn't exist here, but it would be considered pretty exotic. I have one light khaki heavy cotton suit which is great for laid back weddings, but doesn't get much wear otherwise. I tried wearing it to work on Fridays, but got the overwhelming sense that people thought I was overdressed or had some kind of Brideshead Revisited thing going on. OK, 90% of this might have been been in my imagination, but the guy who works at the laundry said "you're looking very Sommerset Maugham today" when I went in to pick up my shirts.

    Do we ever see anyone in top to toe tweed? And if you spend sometime in the country, our country, you find a differnt tradition of country dress. Actually, the wearing of black RMs with a suit is about as close to a 'spectrum' as we get.

    Having said all of that, and turning to the photos, Katter is a good example of what FC labels deliberate discordance. He wears a city outfit which says to his audience, I am professional, I mean business and I know how to play the game. The hat says, despite this, I am 100% for FNQ. The waistcoat says, I have old fashioned values and am a true social conservative.

    PK is all business.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2012
  5. fxh

    fxh Senior member

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    Yes - Katter and his suits are noticeably a notch or two up from other pollies. His stuff usually fits him well too. The white hat is just his branding and classic iconography - the good cowboy in white hat riding in to save the town.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2012
  6. Prince of Paisley

    Prince of Paisley Senior member

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    I'm a black hat kinda guy.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. lennier

    lennier Senior member

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    Nice Jason. I'll be in Mallorca in July in case you need a personal emissary to talk with them further :)
     
  8. Sceps

    Sceps Well-Known Member

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    Im on my way down to the big smoke (Sydney). Picking up my charles nahkle shirt, i was then going to have a chat with the boys at Pjohnson. While i am down there i was going to have a look at some of these allen edmonds shoes that are pretty popular and look a lot better then what i can find in the hunter valley. So where is my besr bet to find a retailer who stocks some allen edmonds?
     
  9. Mirador

    Mirador Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure I agree, I look around and see very few examples of Coherent City Combinations, as defined by the thread. If you take the average Collins Street finance/services type worker, they prefer TM Lewin type shirts matched with varying styles of ties (refer below), anything but a suit in solid dark blue or gray with black shoes. Hence, suits with check-patterns seem more prevalent, I tend to think Australians fit squarely in the Coherent Country Combinations category, even if this is by default, an inability to master/understand a Coherent City Combination.

    [​IMG]

    I do accept that the lounge suit, or sports-coat is something likely to draw attention, perhaps even suspicion, as follows
    [​IMG]

    One thing seems certain to me though, Australia does not have the same cultural reference points to dressing as England. Many of us come from a working-class heritage that have moved up in life as the general prosperity of Australia has improved - there is no legacy for us to learn from, and no obvious class distinctions that we can mirror, possibly a good thing.
     
  10. fxh

    fxh Senior member

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    Selvaggio

    This is an interesting topic. In the good old days F Vox Corbera used to grace this forum occasionally with his attempts at wit - we tolerated and indulged him the way one does with american tourists. Lately however he seems to have put his mind to some of the issues for newbies trying to dress like grown ups. A difficult task and one in which he has acquitted himself well. Whilst I think he doesn’t go far enough in some of his analysis I have to say it is a useful contribution.

    There was some discussion a while back of a bloke, not from Oz, and his outfit - there were lots of comments on fit and other details etc but to my mind the main issue was not small details - the trees if you like – no amount of collar fit, lengthening jacket trouser etc was going to make any difference - but the forest - the coherence and overall message and audience.
    I simply could not tell what the bloke was dressing for, a date, dinner, business, street wear, wedding, funeral, casual friday - in the end I think a big part of the problem was he was in fact dressing to take a photo for a forum. Nothing wrong with that - many do. But given the wealth of information, both pictorial and textual, available here to ascertain the hivemind/groupthink - that he should get it so tragically wrong says a lot about many peoples (ok only his) ability to see what is in front of them and to read and audience.(on the other hand to a large extent he got it right – just missed the =nuance – the rules he got right you ask? – jacket shorter than usual, trousers tighter and shorter, ignore context and audience, flash the double monks, etc)

    Enough - maybe we can revisit this later.

    Our mate Voxy makes the point of a continuum, or perhaps more accurately a divide, between country and city. This is largely a UK distinction and largely from another time. The city /country divide in UK was also about work vs sport, the week – Tuesday to Thursday as oppsed to the weekend – Friday to Monday .

    The country weekend was about sport to a large extent. However it was a different kind of sport than we know now in this time. Sport was riding horses, strolling across countryside, shooting/hunting, walking with dogs, picnics in the country and perhaps some tennis. Country clothes were sports clothes or entertaining and relaxing clothes. Elements of sporting clothes, often relating to comfort, crept into formal clothes and business ( city) clothes. In the old days in UK there was also a distinction between what a gentleman did for money, mainly live off family assets, or rental income etc or perhaps a profession as opposed to the more vulgar ways of earning such as middle class trade and commerce. There was / is obviously a myriad of sharp dividing lines of class in UK.

    In Australia all these "traditions" were only partially transplanted to the new land. Climate and the mix of people (prisoners, working class, Irish, Tolpuddle Martyrs etc) to some extent have always mitigated against a direct import of UK elite classes clothing and habits.

    Here the divide is often between the suburbs and the beach not the city (CBD) and country(sport). Not to mention an entirely different concept of class and how those class divisions can be breached and observed.

    Walk down a suburban shopping strip or shopping mall - where most people live and work - and you will rarely see a suit and tie - let alone one being worn well. In Australia, and I suspect USA, there is a city /suburbs divide. On the train into the city you will see a lot of suits and ties and many worn well , if not to my taste.

    Last year in Adelaide I went to the Adelaide Agricultural Show, as Is my habit wherever I am. There was something striking there. Perhaps not altogether surprising in the home of RM Williams. Men, youths and even young boys - dressed in a distinctively Australian style. Sure it borrowed from American Cowboy gear and to some extent English country / equestrian wear but it was distinctly modern Australian.

    Narrow legged, uncuffed white or off white moleskins (moleskins as RM and other Australians call them are different from what the english say as moleskins - here the moleskin is more like a heavy cotton pant) or well cut and fitting jeans, with brown elastic sided RMs, or Baxter’s or other boots, bright blue or striped slim-ish fitting "western" shirts, often with a wool or knit narrow tie, tweedy or blue sports coats, often with a hat - usually Akubra.

    When you see the look you immediately recognise it as Australian country. But what struck me was how neat it looked and how well it translated to dressed up urban casual or even semi casual and elements of it even work ok in the city. Clearly elements, the black craftsmen RMs with a suit have migrated, relatively successfully, to city. Other bits are often seen as the politician in “casual” gear with brown RMs and jeans.

    Its a good look. The thing that holds me back is that I associate it with squatters in town and hooray henry private school boys back in town for holidays. . Its the same reason many UK people don’t like tweed jackets, a pinstripe suits and such. But I think I need to soften up or harden up

    The above is a bit of a ramble dashed off but we might have a useful conversation around some or these themes.

    edit:: There a lot can be said about the colour palettes of city vs country. UK color palette from country is around their country colours of trees, grass, bushes etc , like tans, browns, and greens - all a bit dulled and rendered different by their light and constant moisture in the air. The city is grey and dark blue - due to climate an building materials. The colours of our country, even in the UK like Tasmanian countryside, are often more vivid or sometimes washed out due to the sunlight and relatively dry climate. Our cities are not grey or bluestone stonework in neat rows.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2012
  11. Selvaggio

    Selvaggio Senior member

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    I can see where you are coming from. But I think FC's version of "city" is a bit outdated and comes more from a North Amercan perspective. Yes, it is historically the case that city = solid/stripe dark suit + solid light shirt. But I think the striped and checked shirts and bolder tie combinations that are part of the City of London look really now an acceptable version of "city" in my mind. I think we take our cues more from London and that whole look spread here from returning ex-pats (eg the founders of Herringbone). The Yanks are more conservative.

    I don't see a lot of checked suits, but I concede they are not that rare either.

    For higher order dressing, I thought the ideas in the thread were interesting and explained why certain combinations just don't work - especcially at the extremes -and others require caution. Maybe it is his concept of 'beginners' which bothers me. I think what he defines as beginners are really "intermediates", even "advanced intermediates".
     
  12. Henry Carter

    Henry Carter Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    As far as I know Allen Edmonds don't have an Australian prescence at all. Anyone else know something I don't?
     
  13. tobiasj

    tobiasj Senior member

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    Hey y'all

    Just got a pair of Allen Edmonds "Delray" (split-toe bluchers) that I bought on the 'bay, very lightly used for about $110 shipped. If anyone is looking for a more casual dress shoe I reckon these are a great option, they're a very good-looking shoe and can (obviously) be had, used, for cheap.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. tobiasj

    tobiasj Senior member

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    Interesting comment--I was back in Wagga (my home town) last Easter, and one night I went out happened to be after a local race day. The gear the male racegoers were wearing was a pleasant surprise along the lines you mention: well fitting moleskins, RMs, well-fitting well-made check shirts etc. All in all a fucking massive improvement on what gets worn to race days here in Melbourne, on average.
     
  15. fxh

    fxh Senior member

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    yes - I'm glad I'm not the only one who notices it. Its a neat fresh look.

    Small Dads Joke::

    Where you from ?

    Wagga Wagga.

    OK OK, I heard you the first time.
     
  16. Henry Carter

    Henry Carter Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    Good to see another riverina boy on here, I'm from Parkes too. I also spend a bit of time at Batlow on my cousins farm (purely for the trout fishing).
     
  17. Inc Interest

    Inc Interest Member

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    I went to a private school in Adelaide and I think it is fair to say that the uniform you described - R.M’s jeans/moleskines etc are a distinct uniform for the 18 year old male that came out of the school, borders especially. Even as casual wear - for going out drinking - RM’s and (sometimes) well fitting shirts make a distinct appearance. That sort of style gets completely butchered however when they are given a choice in suiting or anything closer to ‘city’ wear. It seems that as soon as the uniform is broken then any idea of fit/ proportion and colour goes out the window.
     
  18. ColdEyedPugilist

    ColdEyedPugilist Senior member

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    I believe that in the Aussie context:

    1) Corbs' definition of a 'beginner' could be considered optimistic; your average Aussie tends to struggle with basics such as proportion, pattern-matching and the use of colour, let alone the rustification of anything;

    2) The people most likely to commit any of these so-called sartorial mistakes would be... well... people who enjoy the art of dress, i.e. people like us; and

    3) Even when such 'mistakes' are made, because your average Aussie struggles even with the basics, no one really cares; you will not be called to defend your decision to wear a wooly tie and colourful pocket square with you dark navy worsted. You may be asked - What's with the tie? Interview? - or told - Great tie, mate! - or even - hey, nice suit! - but I have yet to be confronted about any disjointedness in my dressing, contextually speaking, that is.

    What was most useful for me was the idea of coherence as confined to purely physicalelements such as texture, pattern and colour, i.e. the idea that everything you wear should have a harmonious inter-relationship, satorial zen if you will. :)
     
  19. fxh

    fxh Senior member

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    Reasonable comment.

    Re the coherence - yes and no. Sometimes its the contrast between material texture and or colours that makes an outfit work. Sometimes its complementarity and sometimes its matching (eg suit) or summery material / outfits vs wintery - eg Tweed jacket with linen pants and shoes with no socks might work for the odd hipster in Thornbury but usually it doesn't work.

    I agree with point 3 - re "Great Tie" - when I get a comment like that I usually want to go back home and dial it all down a notch.
     
  20. Sceps

    Sceps Well-Known Member

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    [ATTACHMENT=2179]20120224_124944.jpg (1,771k. jpg file)[/ATTACHMENT]
    Just picking up my new shirt and tie, slight issue with 1 arm and shoulder.
     
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