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Australian Members

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by earthdragon, Nov 18, 2008.

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  1. meister

    meister Senior member

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    That vexes me about shirts in Australia, too.
    It is ridiculous that - at a time when places like TM Lewin and Charles Tyrwhitt are selling reasonably-made shirts for about AUD$50 or less per shirt, it is impossible to get similar dress shirts in Australia for under $150. Most places nowadays charge $180, $190, even $200 for stuff that is quite mediocre.

    I can only assume that the reason that no-one comes in and undercuts the market is because there is no real incentive to do so. If people are willing to purchase your Egyptian- or Pakistani-made shirts for $200 and you can sell reasonable numbers at that price point, there is no real incentive to sell them for $100. To make the same nett profit, you would have to sell twice as many shirts at the $100 price point than you would at the $200 price point.

    Also, I strongly suspect that most Australian consumers still correlate price with quality, and that they are ignorant about the actual features and construction of shirts or ties.


    All of the above ...amazing how poor the shirts are in Australia and the price. Mastai Ferrettis are no longer sold at Myer after the buy out.
     
  2. GuidoWongolini

    GuidoWongolini Senior member

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    FFS!

    FWIW a bespoke shirt in Thomas Mason in Sydney by either Herringbone or JH Cutler is about the same price as I have been quoted here in HKG.

    Then you get people on this forum that complain about Jantzen when they are only about AU$50!!!

    All the suits I have bought from Herringbone in the last 6 months have been out standing considering they are on average between AU$1100 & AU$1500, try getting the same workmanship & fabric OS.. Not going to happen.

    Cutler's bespoke suits are also very well priced.

    Sorry guys, but this just ticks me off.. There is more tyre kicking than actual experience & it shows.

    Rant over.
     
  3. apropos

    apropos Senior member

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    FFS! FWIW a bespoke shirt in Thomas Mason in Sydney by either Herringbone or JH Cutler is about the same price as I have been quoted here in HKG. Then you get people on this forum that complain about Jantzen when they are only about AU$50!!! All the suits I have bought from Herringbone in the last 6 months have been out standing considering they are on average between AU$1100 & AU$1500, try getting the same workmanship & fabric OS.. Not going to happen. Cutler's bespoke suits are also very well priced. Sorry guys, but this just ticks me off.. There is more tyre kicking than actual experience & it shows. Rant over.
    1. What's that - AUD$200 per shirt for TM Silverline? Even higher? The posters are not talking upper-end, they are talking about TM Lewin, and the lack of 'entry level' decent shirting. Our 'TM Lewin' is Country Road, and their shirts are of poorer quality and cost more relative to TM Lewin. Van Heusens are breaking the AU$110 barrier in DJs, and are considered 'good'. Tyrwhitt in DJs is apparently 'the cat's meow', according to the (older, female) SA I spoke with. Shirts from Roger David are >AU$120 routinely, and some are cotton/polyester. Politix? Try >$150 shirts that will make you look just like a Latino gangsta. That's the situation we're dealing with on the ground. 2. LOL - sure, for $50 what sort of fabric do you get from Jantzen? You're also not taking into account that MTM online is a crapshoot at best - for fit, for fabric, for everything. And we haven't even taken into account shipping times. Or lead times, which as so many here on the forum have shown, can be pretty variable. And $50 may be nothing to you, but consider that it's 10% of a handgrade C&J. [​IMG] 3. Yes, we get the point. Your Herringbone suits fit great. Hoo-fucking-ray. The Herringbone house style isn't for everyone. And buy a suit from a company that is going out of business? Sounds like a great idea. [​IMG] And that blanket statement regarding 'all overseas suits'? Wow. [​IMG] No comment re: Cutler bespoke suits. Were we even talking about suits before you brought it up?
     
  4. Razele

    Razele Senior member

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    Snarks Ready...

    ...

    Fire!

    I have to go and agree with PG here - Herringbone shirts are TM (the OTR stuff as well, I've heard) and good quality. The Herringbone suits are a massive, massive steal for what you get - the roll on those lapels is beautiful. I only wish that I had started my tailoring push earlier.

    I think Jantzen is insane - 60 AUD for a fully customizable MTM service. Look what PG did for a collar as an example. For fit just send them a shirt that you have that fits well. Sure the fabric isnt great, but its 60 bucks and fully customizable. More disposable shirts. Not all your shirts need to be Alumo quality, I think it's a good idea to have 50/50 between ones that are fantastic quality and ones you can actually work in.

    As an aside, were close to WW Chan, and people have had a great experience with them. I'm going to at end of this year, when I've lost the weight. Get your shoes from pediwear.uk or plal.com.

    Ties online.

    Whats wrong with eBay? Pay less than 1/3 for things. I don't see how that is bad.

    Solved.

    PG, with your special collars, did you go for the italian spread with roll? How did you get them to do it?
     
  5. GuidoWongolini

    GuidoWongolini Senior member

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    More disposable shirts. Not all your shirts need to be Alumo quality, I think it's a good idea to have 50/50 between ones that are fantastic quality and ones you can actually work in.

    PG, with your special collars, did you go for the italian spread with roll? How did you get them to do it?

    - My collars are made & sized for me, so yes there I do like the Italian spread with roll - the trick is to make sure the points do not go past your collar bone & to have the plastic collar bones cut shorter..[​IMG]
     
  6. Razele

    Razele Senior member

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    PG - That's what I thought. I have a larger head and neck than normal for my chest, so I end up getting collars cut larger / longer / higher slightly to keep a good frame. I'll have to get some shorter collar stays as well.

    If herringbone goes under, do you think we could persuade Ethan to do a start up?
     
  7. kdaust

    kdaust Well-Known Member

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    Well, I thought I might chime in regarding shoes...

    After a brief search for some brown shoes before christmas, I finally bought some florsheims.

    I looked at a few of the overseas sites like Plal and pediwear, but with the weaker Australian dollar they didn't seem to be that much of a bargain when I can't even try them on.

    As an aside, I do feel its kind of sad that I couldn't be any more specific than - brown leather soled lace up - when searching in sydney... If I used the words "brogue" or "medallion" or even "welt", most SA's gave me a weird look

    Â
    They feel alright to me. Look nice to my untrained eyes. I even got a compliment from the guy at Coombs (in the Strand) when I went to get some leather conditioner. He also convinced me not to try and darken them with polish (even though I wanted only one shade darker).

    Don't want to advertise them or anything, but I don't feel like taking photos of my feet at the moment, so here's the link to the florsheim site http://www.florsheim.com.au/www/402/...-1023868_.html

    It will be interesting to see how they hold up over time... But I'm happy with them at the moment.
     
  8. Risque

    Risque Well-Known Member

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    Don't want to advertise them or anything, but I don't feel like taking photos of my feet at the moment, so here's the link to the florsheim site http://www.florsheim.com.au/www/402/...-1023868_.html
    Nice choice KD, the Florsheims seem to be the pick of the litter when it comes to advertised shoes in Sydney.

    I completely agree that the Sydney market is purely driven by 'name', and there is little ability to detect quality craftsmanship. This isn't helped by the fact that clothiers are so quick to employ 18 year old blondes in their stores who have NFI about the product, as opposed to a 60 year old man with a measuring tape around his neck, who could probably tell you the type of grass the cow ate before it turned into leather.
     
  9. Tardek

    Tardek Senior member

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    My problem with herringbone is that it is currently in a VA and may very well liquidate. Otherwise yes, I do like their things.
     
  10. appolyon

    appolyon Senior member

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    My problem with herringbone is that it is currently in a VA and may very well liquidate. Otherwise yes, I do like their things.

    How is that a problem? If they liquidate we get to stock up on some great shirts (and similar shirts can be found at cheaper prices).
     
  11. Tardek

    Tardek Senior member

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    Exactly. Do I want to purchase, then look a week later and find them in liquidation? And then if they do liquidate, you can only buy their products once.
     
  12. appolyon

    appolyon Senior member

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    I suppose we just wait on the sidelines like vultures until it is sorted one way or another [​IMG]
     
  13. Tardek

    Tardek Senior member

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    I suppose we just wait on the sidelines like vultures until it is sorted one way or another [​IMG]

    I know, I feel kind of bad about it but I don't want to feel bad for being sensible with my cash.
     
  14. appolyon

    appolyon Senior member

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    I know, I feel kind of bad about it but I don't want to feel bad for being sensible with my cash.

    Don't feel bad about it. It's business.

    And besides, they really should have gotten to know the market better and understood that the Australian market could not support $200 OTR shirts.

    They were really pushing it, and over the last year they raised prices after moving production to Pakistan three something years ago.

    Should have lowered prices and brought in a wider range of customers rather than raise them to maintain the brand and hoping to maintain their margins.
     
  15. Risque

    Risque Well-Known Member

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    I'm reading the papers and watching the TV for one of those obnoxious liquidation sales ads telling me to make my way to some dusty pavilion where I can pick up some of their shirts for 50% off. Besides, if they eventually end in liquidation, their stuff could get a real collector's item edge to it...
     
  16. appolyon

    appolyon Senior member

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    That's it ... keep the eyes peeled and put out the message to members if the time comes!
     
  17. GuidoWongolini

    GuidoWongolini Senior member

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    PG - That's what I thought. I have a larger head and neck than normal for my chest, so I end up getting collars cut larger / longer / higher slightly to keep a good frame. I'll have to get some shorter collar stays as well.

    If herringbone goes under, do you think we could persuade Ethan to do a start up?

    - I hope so..

    How is that a problem? If they liquidate we get to stock up on some great shirts (and similar shirts can be found at cheaper prices).
    - unfortunately for me, my size is always in limited supply so if I don;t buy then some other guy or WORSE a SFer will get it [​IMG] ..
    - also the good stuff never seem to make it to the sale as they are snapped up by staff or VIP customers
    - finally the good fabrics they use for the bespoke shirt service is in small supply unlike the OTR shirts which are OK, but I prefer to wear my bespoke shirts as the cut & he Thomas Mason fabric is far superior (as one would expect)
     
  18. appolyon

    appolyon Senior member

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    - also the good stuff never seem to make it to the sale as they are snapped up by staff or VIP customers

    Am on the list! [​IMG]
     
  19. Journeyman

    Journeyman Senior member

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    Don't feel bad about it. It's business.

    And besides, they really should have gotten to know the market better and understood that the Australian market could not support $200 OTR shirts.


    Whilst I do think that Herringbone's shirts are a bit overpriced, I don't think that's the reason for their problems, as there are plenty of brands in Australia selling far more poorly-made shirts than those produced by Herringbone for prices ranging from $170 to $200, and they haven't gone into voluntary administration.

    Whilst I really have no idea, I suspect that Herringbone simply opened a few too many loss-making stores that cannibalised on each other's sales, and that perhaps the owners took on too much debt in the process of opening the stores. Things probably would have been alright if sales didn't slump in Q4 last year.

    I heard yesterday that the VA period has been extended by another 45 days whilst various options are investigated, so Herringbone should still be around for at least another six weeks, and hopefully much longer than that!
     
  20. apropos

    apropos Senior member

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    Whilst I do think that Herringbone's shirts are a bit overpriced, I don't think that's the reason for their problems, as there are plenty of brands in Australia selling far more poorly-made shirts than those produced by Herringbone for prices ranging from $170 to $200, and they haven't gone into voluntary administration.

    Whilst I really have no idea, I suspect that Herringbone simply opened a few too many loss-making stores that cannibalised on each other's sales, and that perhaps the owners took on too much debt in the process of opening the stores. Things probably would have been alright if sales didn't slump in Q4 last year.

    I heard yesterday that the VA period has been extended by another 45 days whilst various options are investigated, so Herringbone should still be around for at least another six weeks, and hopefully much longer than that!

    I wish them nothing but the best. I really, really, like their ties.
     
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