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Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by earthdragon, Nov 18, 2008.

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  1. TheWraith

    TheWraith Senior member

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    Well - I was born in earlier times. My father, who is dead now, said that most people didn't make much effort with clothes in his opinion but then everyone had a sunday suit and the only options really were wool. So they inherently looked better without much effort.

    Yes, it was different out in the country, but in the cities back in the day...well, you only have to look at old movies and old photos. More people dressed up then than today. And that was a good thing IMO.
     


  2. fxh

    fxh Senior member

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    Yes, it was different out in the country, but in the cities back in the day...well, you only have to look at old movies and old photos. More people dressed up then than today. And that was a good thing IMO.

    My take is that the "average " working person wore more ragged clothes, down shifted "best" clothes and overalls or uniform to work and during the week at home. They were worse dressed when they went say casual, although it was less defined, than most people now (leaving trackie dacks out of the equation).

    Except for the poorest of the poor, when people dressed up then, Sat night or Sunday morning or "going to the shops", they were better dressed than most people, even the well off, are now dressed up. Even at the opera at least 30% of people dress like slobs getting ready to mow the lawn.

    I am unable to comment with any direct knowledge of, nor do I wish to do field work on, how people dress for Sunday church these days but if weddings and funerals are any indication then not only are people badly dressed, even those who wish to dress well, but, and I suspect a causual link, there is no sense of occasion or exception from the everyday in their demeanor or clothing.

    Not to mention appearances at court*.

    I was just looking at some old crime stories - Squizzy Taylor on the front page of the Sun in September 1922 surrenders to the police - dressed in a bowler hat, suit and neat double breasted (camel coloured I'm guessing) overcoat, with horizontal striped knit tie, with bejeweled tie pin just below the knot and tab collared shirt with irregular VERTICAL stripes on collar. Not only does he look natty now but the front page of the Sun describes him as " The Beau Brummel of the Underworld"

    What are we served up with now? - bloody Carl Williams and Benji in 3/4 length cutoff pants with athletic sneakers and t Shirts. It's bloody hopeless I tell ya. Even drug lords and gangland bosses don't know how to dress well.

    * I'll remind you that technically the record will show I was cleared of all charges.
     


  3. jobro

    jobro Senior member

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    I was just looking at some old crime stories - Squizzy Taylor on the front page of the Sun in September 1922 surrenders to the police - dressed in a bowler hat, suit and neat double breasted (camel coloured I'm guessing) overcoat, with horizontal striped knit tie, with bejeweled tie pin just below the knot and tab collared shirt with irregular VERTICAL stripes on collar. Not only does he look natty now but the front page of the Sun describes him as " The Beau Brummel of the Underworld" What are we served up with now? - bloody Carl Williams and Benji in 3/4 length cutoff pants with athletic sneakers and t Shirts. It's bloody hopeless I tell ya. Even drug lords and gangland bosses don't know how to dress well. * I'll remind you that technically the record will show I was cleared of all charges.
    Carl Williams won't be bothering you any more buddy.
     


  4. fxh

    fxh Senior member

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    Carl Williams won't be bothering you any more buddy.
    Unfortunately I'll be seeing more pics of him on the news now than I have for the last year. I'm stuck in Barwon prison, and time keeps draggin' on But that train keeps a rollin' on down to old Geelong.
     


  5. GanglandDandy

    GanglandDandy Senior member

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    Paid off by the Morans, you guys reckon? Inclined to believe the media reports though.
     


  6. __PG__

    __PG__ Senior member

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    I am unable to comment with any direct knowledge of, nor do I wish to do field work on, how people dress for Sunday church these days but if weddings and funerals are any indication then not only are people badly dressed, even those who wish to dress well, but, and I suspect a causual link, there is no sense of occasion or exception from the everyday in their demeanor or clothing.
    I see loads of old Italian and Greek men in Northcote who still get dressed up for Church.

    It's not uncommon to see old men in the Coles on a Sunday morning in a 3-piece suit and looking a million dollars.

    The best dressed guy at last year's Northcote festival was a old Italian guy in a light grey suit, with an an open-neck blue shirt.

    Living around these guys is one of the reasons I starting taking an interest in 'style' as all the young inner-city hipsters with Wayfarers, skinny jeans and trilby hats are doing my head in.
     


  7. TheWraith

    TheWraith Senior member

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    Yeah, it's usually the elderly who dress better for the most part (ie. those not dressed up for work).
     


  8. Prince of Paisley

    Prince of Paisley Senior member

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  9. JohnsNotHere

    JohnsNotHere Senior member

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    What are your guys thoughts on Rodd and Gunn? Some of their sports coats look ok (although when I tried one on it didn't fit in the shoulders).
     


  10. apropos

    apropos Senior member

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    What are your guys thoughts on Rodd and Gunn? Some of their sports coats look ok (although when I tried one on it didn't fit in the shoulders).
    Last I checked (2009), nicely made half-canvassed SCs that were cut a little loose. But TBH, IMO if they don't fit, it doesn't matter how nicely made they are... [​IMG]
     


  11. JohnsNotHere

    JohnsNotHere Senior member

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    Last I checked (2009), nicely made half-canvassed SCs that were cut a little loose.

    But TBH, IMO if they don't fit, it doesn't matter how nicely made they are... [​IMG]


    Hell yes, hence leaving on the rack. Funny how the sales person was adament it was fine and couldn't understand why I didn't buy it [​IMG]

    Maybe an option for others though.
     


  12. fxh

    fxh Senior member

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    It's doin' me 'ead in guv.
    Trying on jackets that is.

    It seems as if these days there is no such thing as a standard size. I have to try everything from a 38L to 40R and 42R. And even then nothing fits quite right. Sizes seem all over the place. BTW I'm not being too fussy either.

    I'll admit I'm a bit not standard - I'm about 19" across shoulders but 42 chest and a 31.5" length.

    In an ideal world I'd find a 41R and it would fit. Most 40Rs fit across shoulders but can't be done up successfully without being too tight looking. and 42Rs can be ok to do up but too big everywhere else.

    I hardly ever do jackets up so it's not all bad to go 40R but it would be nice to have a proper fit.

    Other than MTM or bespoke do any brands have a 41R or do any brands publish their measurements?

    The tailor guy says go 42R - chest is most important - and he'll alter the rest. But I don't understand how he will fix shoulders. btw I'm not after a super tight fit at all - but i do like a bit of shape.


    Any suggestions?

    update:I just had a look at bookster used on ebay. At least they have measurements. Now all I have to do is find a sport jacket rather than a hacking or shooting jacket in a colour and size I want. Anyone had experience with them?
     


  13. apropos

    apropos Senior member

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    The tailor guy says go 42R - chest is most important - and he'll alter the rest. But I don't understand how he will fix shoulders. btw I'm not after a super tight fit at all - but i do like a bit of shape.
    That is absolutely wrong. Everything starts with the shoulders - when observing someone in a jacket, I start at the shoulders and progress down. Think about it - you are likely to do so as well. And let's face it - if we are talking about worst-case scenarios at the end of the day a jacket with shoulders that fit perfect but with a chest that is a shade too tight can still be worn unbuttoned and potentially look great, but a jacket with shoulders shot to hell will always look bad - no matter how you wear it. A chest is also much easier to take in than a shoulder, and shoulder alterations have so much more potential to go wrong.
     


  14. Journeyman

    Journeyman Senior member

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    It's doin' me 'ead in guv.
    Trying on jackets that is.

    It seems as if these days there is no such thing as a standard size. I have to try everything from a 38L to 40R and 42R. And even then nothing fits quite right. Sizes seem all over the place. BTW I'm not being too fussy either.

    I'll admit I'm a bit not standard - I'm about 19" across shoulders but 42 chest and a 31.5" length.

    In an ideal world I'd find a 41R and it would fit. Most 40Rs fit across shoulders but can't be done up successfully without being too tight looking. and 42Rs can be ok to do up but too big everywhere else.

    I hardly ever do jackets up so it's not all bad to go 40R but it would be nice to have a proper fit.

    Other than MTM or bespoke do any brands have a 41R or do any brands publish their measurements?

    The tailor guy says go 42R - chest is most important - and he'll alter the rest. But I don't understand how he will fix shoulders. btw I'm not after a super tight fit at all - but i do like a bit of shape.


    Any suggestions?

    update:I just had a look at bookster used on ebay. At least they have measurements. Now all I have to do is find a sport jacket rather than a hacking or shooting jacket in a colour and size I want. Anyone had experience with them?



    Look for a slim-fitting 42 with narrower shoulders, perhaps?
    Herringbone's Osaka cut and some of the RL Polo suits have slimmer shoulders and a slimmer cut in general, with less padding than quite a few other brands, so that might suit you.

    Otherwise, perhaps you might consider looking for a brand that makes a size 40 with wider shoulders!

    Your tailor is correct in that it is possible to bring in the shoulders of a jacket but I would argue against it unless it is absolutely necessary, mainly because it will cost a lot. It's also a reasonably complex operation, as to narrow the shoulders, your tailor would need to detach the sleeves, take out any shoulder padding, either replace the padding or re-set it, and then re-attach the sleeves, taking care to maintain any pattern matching and making sure to get the angle (the sleeve pitch) right.

    Unless he is incredibly cheap, it will probably cost you about $180 per jacket that you have done.
     


  15. fxh

    fxh Senior member

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    That is absolutely wrong.

    Everything starts with the shoulders - when observing someone in a jacket, I start at the shoulders and progress down. Think about it - you are likely to do so as well.

    And let's face it - if we are talking about worst-case scenarios at the end of the day a jacket with shoulders that fit perfect but with a chest that is a shade too tight can still be worn unbuttoned and potentially look great, but a jacket with shoulders shot to hell will always look bad - no matter how you wear it.

    A chest is also much easier to take in than a shoulder, and shoulder alterations have so much more potential to go wrong.


    Basically this is what I think. A jacket is often only done up for photos anyway and I can always suck it all in a bit for 1 minute. Mind you outside of places like this most people cant tell if a jacket is 1" too big on shoulders. Come to think of it most of the time neither can I tell if a its a tad big or small.

    It's such a pity one can't rely on stores to have staff that can tell you how something fits.

    Maybe there could be a Phone an iGent hotline where one could call up a SF gent to come and help try on clothes and give honest feedback.

    Trouble is I'd be worried if I got the wrong person I could end up spending $5,000 (+ $250 on a pocket square), to be dressed like a cross between Maxwell Smart and Pee Wee Herman with a haircut to match but with 5" cuffs on my pants that stop two inches above my shoes.
     


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