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Australian Members

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by earthdragon, Nov 18, 2008.

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  1. cemi1988

    cemi1988 Well-Known Member

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    believe me, i am not doubting pjohnson's quality. there's no question product quality is high, service excellent and the following deserved.

    having said that, the issue of whether the following is deserved or not is irrelevant to my previous post; the content of which i stand by.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
  2. JimmyHoffa

    JimmyHoffa Senior member

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    I apologise, forgive me. I was probably trying to convince myself more than anything. I quoted you out of context. All things said and done, I agree with your original post!
     
  3. Oli2012

    Oli2012 Senior member

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    I won't go on, but I can understand why the thread gets annoyed at the posts.

    Along with half the members knowing Patrick in person, there's a certain internet forum gnarlishness that comes with the questioning, ala the so often heard: "I could get a chick to make me a bespoke suit in Vietnam for $50." It lacks respect for the service.

    I can see why modern tailoring is going down this route - its the well fitted garment without the labour costs. For 99.999999% of the general public it will suffice.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
  4. Nolvadex

    Nolvadex Senior member

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    So how much does pj cost?
     
  5. Oli2012

    Oli2012 Senior member

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    $3.50
     
  6. Osiris2012

    Osiris2012 Senior member

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    God Dammit Loch Ness Monster Oli, I ain’t gonna give you no tree fiddy
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. FredAstaire1899

    FredAstaire1899 Senior member

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    Disclaimer - this is not meant as a criticism nor promotion of any tailors or gentleman's outfitting companies discussed or not discussed on this board.

    A) is the main issue. I can find you tailors in Sydney CBD that can do fully canvassed (some padded by hand), altered patterns (even re-drafted), four fittings from baste from high quality Italian and English cloths, probably a 2-3 week turn around to first fitting, a little over $2000. However, it would be difficult to find you soft shoulders, let alone non-padded ones. Hand made button holes, horn buttons and pick stitching, possible. Factor in that small operations must buy pre-fabricated trimmings from suppliers at this price point, which may not be equal in quality to those accessible from a large Italian factory. Light canvasses, skirted trouser banding are all very difficult. Is the tailor using an updated block, or one optimized for your desired silhouette?

    People would refer to such a service by multiple terms: bespoke, semi-bespoke or MTM. And what is a bespoke garment exactly? Perhaps all of the following: a totally new drafted pattern, an exacting alteration of a house style, having baste fittings, the best fabrics, top quality trimmings, hand finishes, padding the canvas by hand, made on Saville Row. Maybe 'The best tailor in town' in the 1960's, or the 'a good local tailor' 100 years ago.

    You must choose the service that fits your requirements the best. This thread contains many suggestions, reviews, and for the very large part, people doing their best to help steer others in the right direction.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
  8. jmills

    jmills Senior member

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    Odd question but has anyone seen olive chinos for sale anywhere recently?
     
  9. Pink Socks

    Pink Socks Senior member

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    PJ could make you a bespoke pair....

    Haha, sorry couldn't resist. Definitely seen them around - Gant Rugger had a pair not too long ago. They shouldn't be too difficult to find - I am sure others will chime in with some helpful links.

    What is your price range? And does it need to be local?
     
    2 people like this.
  10. Geoffrey Firmin

    Geoffrey Firmin Senior member

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    FTFY
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. iSurg

    iSurg Senior member

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    Gazman: we are a society of sorts. Come to a forum meet and you will understand.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
  12. TimelessMan

    TimelessMan Well-Known Member

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    Andrew Doyle www.timelessman.com.au
    For those who'll be in town, Chris and Nick Schaerf of Double Monk in Melbourne will be hosting George Glasgow Junior and Teemu Leppanen of GJ Cleverley, on March 14 and 15, including drinks at their boutique on the Friday night. I've just put up a new post with the information for the couple of days.

    http://www.timelessman.com.au/advice/gj-cleverly-trunk-show-double-monk/

    Unfortunately for everyone else, I'll be there too... 
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
    3 people like this.
  13. sliq

    sliq Senior member

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    1 person likes this.
  14. Coxsackie

    Coxsackie Senior member

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    Here's my layman's understanding of bespoke vs MTM:

    With MTM, I can see an example of the garment before I order it, either hanging on a rack or in a catalog. The garment I order will be made with the same fabric, in the same style and cut. I may be able to specify minor customisations such as working vs. non-working sleeve buttons. I will then be measured up and the garment will be made to fit my specific body shape and size.

    With bespoke, I have to specify style and cut, select the fabric, and outline all the various specifications - lapel width, shoulder style, structure, padding, canvassing, pocket style and placement, vents and so forth.

    Recently I commissioned a suit from a Shanghai tailor. I selected the fabric and showed my tailor a photo of a suit in a catalog whose style I liked. I simply asked him to copy that style. I regard this as a fully bespoke commission.

    In Sydney I could order a MTM suit from, say, the Canali boutique, or the Tom Ford booth at Harrolds. I doubt either shop could offer me a bespoke service.

    Am I on the right track here?
     
  15. Coxsackie

    Coxsackie Senior member

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    Anyone heard of "Tom James of Sydney"?

    I was approached on the street yesterday by an attractive young lass who complimented me on my jacket (fresh from my tailor who had made some alterations to fit).

    It's always nice to receive a compliment from a young lady.

    Anyway, she handed me her business card. She works as a tailor (or perhaps "clothier", which is how she's described on the card) for the above firm.

    Seems there are a few of these niche men's clothing firms starting up lately, especially in Melbourne. This is the first one I've heard of in Sydney.
     
  16. TheWraith

    TheWraith Senior member

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    Probably one of the plethora of offshore MTM operations that have popped up the last few years or so, but I could well be mistaken. If anyone has details of Tom James, feel free to share them here.

    I'm old fashioned. I prefer bespoke to be referred to as bespoke and MTM to be referred to as MTM. You can get good results with both, exceptional results with both and I've used both, but be honest about the product you supply. I got full bespoke from Zink & Sons in Sydney (full floating canvas, handmade buttonholes, hand rolled lapels, horn buttons, Holland & Sherry wool, three fittings) for a little over $2,000. That was in 2010, so prices will no doubt have changed, but you can get the full service for not that much more than you pay for offshore MTM from certain companies. I've also used MTM, currently do so, with great results. You choose the service that gives you the product you want for the price you can afford. That's how it should be. No problem there.

    [quote author="Romp"]Also I think you will find the only true bespoke tailors in that article are Bijan and Cutler.[/quote]

    Incorrect. Zink is a bespoke tailor. Their suits are made in their upstairs workroom. New patterns are drafted, Robert or Daniel cut the patterns etc.

    [quote author="cemi1988"]but i'd hazard a guess and say were this forum not discussing pjohnson, but a lesser known retailer, or a retailer without the cult following pjohnson has on this board in particular, the distinction between bespoke and mto and tailor and fitter would suddenly become more relevant.[/quote]

    +1
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
  17. The Ernesto

    The Ernesto Senior member

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    Do you wear socks?
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. The Ernesto

    The Ernesto Senior member

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    How odd, was thinking about this the other day!

    Left field suggestion, sometimes GAP has green pants.
     
  19. JimmyHoffa

    JimmyHoffa Senior member

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    But that's the point - MTM is bespoke. It's a 'type' of bespoke. So they are technically not wrong in not correcting the newspaper articles.

    Zink and Sons, full bespoke suit for $2,000? Are you sure?
     
  20. TheWraith

    TheWraith Senior member

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    Like I said in my post, it was just over $2,000 and it was in 2010, so no doubt prices have gone up since then. But yes, that was the price 3 1/2 years ago.
     
    2 people like this.
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