Australian Members

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by earthdragon, Nov 18, 2008.

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  1. Romp

    Romp Affiliate Vendor

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    Cool thanks for bringing me into this.... I did choose not to participate in this debate but for some reason we have been implicated.

    Firstly Henry Carter and Owen & James are not great examples as our sales wouldn't move the dial of any listed retailer here in Australia. We would be the equivalent of a comparison to a sole trader opening a shop in a small town. Id like to think that the reason that we exist is to offer Australian consumers something that is differentiated from what is already available in stores and offer something better than the big guys can offer. Sure if we grow, we will employ people that's how it works for any business that grows.

    Here is some food for thought.

    1) the internet is changing the game whether these guys like it or not
    2) Just like a shift in sales from B&M to online, there are a shift of jobs and costs involved. Take the Iconic as an example. They sell as much as one large physical department store and employ just as many people as they would to staff a store (on a FTE basis). They pay a lease albeit a warehouse and they also pay more people i.e. Australia post, the courier, a photography team, their audit team etc etc.
    3) This is not a socialist economy. Evolution and development of skill sets has always been key. Where technology has exposed inefficiencies it has opened a plethora of opportunities for those who adapt.
    4) If noone used the self-scan checkouts then they wouldnt exist. Just like if noone wanted to shop online it wouldnt exist. In fact this whole debate wouldnt even be taking place if the population chose to act differently.

    To say that online has taken away Australian jobs is a comment just as ignorant as the comments that Gerry himself has made. If you actually analyse the financial metrics of any online business you will see their cost structure is IDENTICAL in dollars as a brick and mortars retailer. It is just allocated differently within the economy.
     


  2. Prof. B. Bear

    Prof. B. Bear Senior member

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    fox81 - were you in Adelaide today? I thought I saw you wearing your brown plaid Luxire shirt. Might have been a very similar shirt if not.
     


  3. Petepan

    Petepan Senior member

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    +1

    Australia is terribly complacent and is horrendous in capital allocation towards industries utilising knowledge base that comes from the advantage of education. We throw subsidies at old clunking manufacturing, and reduces R & D incentives for developers of technology which makes the manufacturing more efficient. All ostensibly to protect jobs, but in reality, it is to protect votes by appeasing powerful unions.

    I see the same argument playing up with the automatic check-out machines at the grocers. The machines are there because the demand is there. I hear the same old arguments repeated ad nauseaum with introduction of any new technology eg ATMs, online billing, automatic tollgates, etc.

    To give you a ludicrous example of how bad we are at funding technology, a recent Australian startup has to go to the US to get funding, and the funding was provided 70% by Australian investors. Am I the only one who sees this with real sadness?

    As for the lost of young people's jobs as check-out blokes and chicks, I actually rejoice at the idea. My mate operates a start-up and he is screaming for good switched-on young graphic designers with a modicum of work ethics and initiative. The business is growing at 100% plus per annum in a market with zero competitors. Another client of mine needs administrative assistants able to handle the paperwork in a shipping/logistics business. And I can go on and on. A scarcity of Harvey Norman and other shit brain dead jobs means better futures for young people willing to take the initiative and work hard at higher level jobs.

    Read up Lee Kuan Yew's book, especially his take on India, where he had the experience of five persons at a golf club pampering him, from taking off his shoes to giving him a towel and getting him a drink. That is job creation for the unaware.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2012


  4. UnnamedPlayer

    UnnamedPlayer Senior member

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    Everything looks too tight.
    I don't get the fascination/appeal of wearing tight fitting clothes.

    Nice.

    I ordered my pair in April and used them all winter.
    The model I got were these, in the colour in the preview:
    http://www.chesterjefferies.co.uk/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=33

    I gave a snug measurment and told them I wanted a tight fit, they came out very nicely indeed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2012


  5. lachyzee

    lachyzee Senior member

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    I'm sorry but I didn't say that anywhere, nor was it implied from anything I wrote. You're rebutting an argument that I didn't make.

    If I had, then I would fully expect you to get riled up because it would be incorrect and somewhat offensive. I actually agreed with you - you don't "fill the void" created by the departure of say, Just Jeans (if it was to collapse) since you're aiming at almost completely different demographics.

    I don't consider your kind of business as taking away from regular retail jobs at all. I don't consider you to be in competition with the kind of retailers we are talking about (for example, anything owned by Pacific Brands). Completely different clientele.

    *edit* Look I do apologise if I came across as accusing you of "stealing jobs from regular Aussies", really not what I meant at all.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2012


  6. lachyzee

    lachyzee Senior member

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    RE the checkouts - it's fundamentally incorrect to say "they are there because demand is there". It's not that kind of situation at all. Unless your definition of "demand" involves being forced to use something.

    Hypothetically:

    - in 2005, a supermarket has 8 checkouts open on a regular basis. Average wait time for a customer is 5 mins.
    - in 2012, a supermarket has 8 checkouts, but only opens three on a regular basis. They also have 6 self serve checkouts. Of course the customers are not going to all go and line up in three big queues. They see the self serve checkouts, and they use them. The queues for the regular and self serve checkouts even out according to what the mind sees as the fastest option. That's not demand, that's being forced to use whatever is your quickest option. Do you really expect people to line up in the few open regular checkouts on principle? Please.

    The net result, though, is an increased average wait time. I would bet my bottom dollar that your wait time at the supermarket now is, on average, longer than it was pre-self serve era.

    No-one was "demanding" self serve checkouts. "Demanding" a shorter wait, sure. But I don't think they were introduced with that in mind.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2012


  7. Petepan

    Petepan Senior member

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    I dont count the time doing my own check-out and bagging my stuff as wait time. The frustration of queues come from not doing anything and not feeling in control, not the actual time involved. Simple psychology. Something economists do not understand, at all...
     


  8. thebrownman

    thebrownman Senior member

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    All I know is I don't like self-checkout. Hate it.

    EDIT: Can't bag up groceries and adjust my pocket square/tie. I'm sure y'all understand...
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2012


  9. lachyzee

    lachyzee Senior member

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    I think that is a very good point. This probably ameliorates the self serve checkouts for most people, because you feel like you're "doing something about it". This and the fact that you can also put avocados through as apples...
     


  10. Petepan

    Petepan Senior member

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    And there will be people who hates ATM to this day, and electronic tollgates, and online shopping.

    If the NSW government would have just let ERG get on with their job in 2000, we would all now have smartcards ala PayWave. Just look at Hong Kong's amazing Octopus card.

    Still, woe betides any technology that interferes with sartorial sensibilities.
     


  11. Romp

    Romp Affiliate Vendor

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    OK truce. I agree with the comments that we don't want to see an industry fail. But I do feel strongly that if they are failing its a lack of ability to adapt. Kodak case in point having invented a digital camera first but not developing it because more money was made from selling film ! I think noone feels sorry for Gerry specifically which unfortunately impacts all his employees and franchisees who may not feel the same/agree with his views
    FWIW this is exactly why they rolled it out. Consumer demand and the psychology of consumers controlling their own destiny. The novelty im sure will roll off and you will see it peel back as seen in the UK. However, interestingly your comment re avocados as apples .. the reverse is true gross margins through self checkout have gone up ... because people are TOO cautious and sometimes double scan items.

    So rather than a security/shrink issue they are getting people paying too much!
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012


  12. lachyzee

    lachyzee Senior member

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    I've always thought that all those "pay what you think its worth" restaurants must make a tonne of dough for a similar reason (ie fear of embarrassment). People don't want to seem cheap in front of their friends, to the hipster waiter/tress, to fellow diners etc.
     


  13. Petepan

    Petepan Senior member

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    Okay, just checked the trees last night. The Epic trees are wide, and you will have difficulties fitting shoes with narrow lasts. I believe another SF member (cannot remember who ATM, sorry) already warned us previously on Epic trees width.

    Meermin's Hiro last is already a generous last, but the EPIC M size will not fit Size UK 8.5. If you have medium width fitting, I suggest be safe and either go one smaller or choose another tree.
     


  14. Pink Socks

    Pink Socks Senior member

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    I know what you are saying just funny to read these two lines in the same post. Journeyman's fit has already been overanalysed and I am happy to see his posts here, especially his splashs of colour.

    Now to choose a pocket square tie combination for Tough Mudder tomorrow morning...
     


  15. Journeyman

    Journeyman Senior member

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    Go for a cravat or neckerchief instead - it will help to wipe the mud off your face!
     


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