Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by earthdragon, Nov 18, 2008.
peterpan and paisley - what ever happened to good old reliable amphetamines?
Old Collingwood players ate them all.
This is true.
However, it's also true that most retail in Australia - including and especially Harvey Norman - has relied upon cheap imports for the past couple of decades.
It both amuses me and irritates me when I hear Gerry Harvey squealing and asking for government support for local businesses. What local businesses? Retail businesses such as HN stock products that are almost entirely produced overseas and which are then sold by minimum-wage, largely untrained, casually-employed retail staff. Are these the sort of jobs that we want the government to protect, if indeed we do want the government to protect jobs?
I think that the "government support" argument is definitely an argument worth having, but it begs the question as to why the government should support one business over another (and, of course, these are exactly the sort of questions that are asked - why do we spend so much money on propping up car manufacturing, for example, yet largely ignore other sorts of manufacturing?).
Clearly, both economic and political issues enter into the equation but it does seem futile - and facile - to ask the government for assistance or protection so as to prop up poorly paid, casual jobs in the retail sector.
Lot of great posts about HN / GST / imports etc. lately. I am in furious agreement.
Are those some sort of prohibited things for agriculture?
Sliq - my bucks was pretty intense, see if you get inspired - got home invaded, blind folded bagged and gagged at 6am in the morning, thrown the boot of a car and driven out to bankstown airport. Put in a Robin (ala batman) tight lycra costume and strapped into the red bull open air cockpit stunt plane (I hate heights ... do not even do roller coasters). Flipped, rolled, dived, flew upside down in this tiny thing and thankfully ate no breakfast.
I was then blind folded again and taken to paintball ... before getting "executed"
then we went city, me in the Robin costume and had challenges to complete.. then dinner, then friend's apartment for the "par-tay"...
I was awake for like 26 hours straight lol. Your bucks sounds good but on the tame side haha. One thing my mates found was that a) you'll have tight-wads not wanting to do anything and b) hard to fit everything into one day logistically
... If you make it back from your bucks
Hmm I will have to plan something special for my 1000th post
I'm sorry but I really don't like this argument. The answer, from my point of view, is yes. I agree that they don't really stock anything 'Made in Australia' but...
HN and the like will employ people who a) are young and getting the job as their first line on the CV or b) do not have the education or skills to get another job.
I feel a particular empathy with those in category a) since I was in that position not all that long ago and remember how hard it was to get that first job.
Every Ojays/Darrell Lea/David Jones/Harvey Norman that goes out of business costs the jobs of a whole lot unskilled and unqualified people who would struggle the most to get a job somewhere else. Not to mention the flow on effect to the professionals in this thread... ie whatever law firm that handles HN's commercial leasing... the accounting firm that audits them etc...
Henry Carter and O&J don't employ any staff (or, at least, nowhere near the amount that they would if they had the same stock in a retail premises), they don't lease any premises (that I know of). They do not fill the void created by the loss of other retail jobs.
Whatever you think of the management of HN (and I agree that it has been poor), I find it hard to believe that people would want them, or the retail sector in general, to fail. The retail sector fulfills an important function particularly in Victoria and NSW - it employs a lot of young people, and unskilled adults.
And since I am on a rant (I know this is getting way off topic)... this (costing unskilled jobs) is a large part of the reason that I hate the self-checkout machines that are at Coles/Woolies these days:
1) they are slower than getting a trained checkout person to scan your stuff. People sit there struggling with the machines for ages since they don't know how to use them or bag stuff up efficiently. And we are gradually approaching the time where people are getting so used to having these slow machines that they don't remember the days before them when things were quicker.
2) they cost jobs for young people and adults who really need them. To their credit, the Woolworths near me employs a lot of teenagers and young adults from the nearby housing estate, as well as a few people with disabilities. But those 8 self checkout machines are 4 people who don't get a shift that day.
3) because of the above they have no advantages for customers or employees, they exist simply to increase the profits of the Coles/Woolies monopoly. Even at the busiest times, only half of the actual checkouts at Woolies are manned now - the rest sit empty since they know they can funnel people into the self checkout service.
+1. Well said Lachyzee.
In other news - just received a new Uniqlo blazer and 3 brooks brothers/herringbone shirts from our friend T (thebrownman).
Thanks mate. Pleasure dealing with you.
Wait, this is off-topic, but did Ethandesu use to own Herringbone? Or design for them?
Agreed. I remember avoid ticket machine back in Edinburgh at Waverley Station about 8 years ago for the same reason.
Well, Premier Investments are doing just fine. Retail spending is actually holding up well, but the spending dollar to HN is getting less. Clearly a management problem.
I'm not against unskilled labour, nor against relatively menial jobs. As you say, such jobs are important for both young people who want some employment whilst at school or university and want to get experience in a workplace, and for people who will, for whatever reason, never manage to get a skilled job.
However - and perhaps I'm wrong on this point - I tend to think that if HN or other such businesses fail, then others will take their place - an example of what economists like to call "creative destruction". Creating a retail business is not necessarily easy, but it usually doesn't require as much investment or as much know-how as, for example, starting a high-tech manufacturing concern. Thus, it is easier to start such a business, easier to source staff, easier to acquire an inventory and accommodation. In general, the retail sector has pretty low barriers to entry.
Regrettably, unskilled workers are the first to suffer during any economic changes and technology has been the prime driver of such changes over the past century, first with construction/civil engineering/mining, then with admin work, and now with retail.
I absolutely agree with your point about self-service checkouts - they are certainly not there to benefit customers and are simply for the benefit of the store, very much like petrol stations nowadays. I remember when, as a child, we would pull into a petrol station and sit in the car whilst one or even two people came out and put petrol in the car, checked the tyres and cleaned the windscreen. Now, of course, you get to do it all yourself!
PM me for a good price on Ritalin
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