1. And... we're back. You'll notice that all of your images are back as well, as are our beloved emoticons, including the infamous :foo: We have also worked with our server folks and developers to fix the issues that were slowing down the site.

    There is still work to be done - the images in existing sigs are not yet linked, for example, and we are working on a way to get the images to load faster - which will improve the performance of the site, especially on the pages with a ton of images, and we will continue to work diligently on that and keep you updated.

    Cheers,

    Fok on behalf of the entire Styleforum team
    Dismiss Notice

Australian Members

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by earthdragon, Nov 18, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Journeyman

    Journeyman Senior member

    Messages:
    6,774
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2005
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    

    Yes, and no.

    Yes, in that sniping tools do help you to avoid the temptation to engage in a last-minute bidding war, as it allows you to set your maximum bid and then forget about it.

    No, in that most people don't use sniping tools for the above reason. Instead, they use sniping tools such as Gixen so that a) they don't have to stay up until the middle of the night, and b) so that they don't have irrational eBay users place bid after bid after bid in an attempt to compete with the max bid that was placed by our original bidder, thus driving up the price.


    Well, I think that sniping is becoming more common, and that is a good thing, as it helps to reduce irrationality.

    I think that you underestimate the irrationality that is present in a market like eBay. I know (like fxh) that anecdotes are not reliable, but I have seen example after example of people placing bid after bid after bid, steadily driving up the price, in an attempt to find out someone else's max bid. I think that there are a lot of people out there who really don't understand how eBay works and so who do not put in their max bids - they put in a smaller bid and then, if need be, will put in a larger bid in an attempt to once again become the top bidder. Therefore, if you don't put in a max bid early in the auction, they will not place bids against your max bid amount and they will not drive up the price. Are they acting irrationally? Yes, they are. Are they going to stop? Probably not. Therefore, using a sniping program like Gixen helps to avoid driving up the bids and allows you to potentially win the auction and thus purchase the item for a lower price.
     
  2. Prince of Paisley

    Prince of Paisley Senior member

    Messages:
    4,432
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Location:
    Sydney
    

    Don't tell me this is why real estate agents (those honest, reliable men and women) usually prefer to sell houses at auction rather than set a price?
     
  3. Selvaggio

    Selvaggio Senior member

    Messages:
    583
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Location:
    Australia
    

    Surely, what this thread really needs is a discussion of Pareto efficiency as it applies to the market for second-hand waxed cotton hunting jackets.
     
  4. lachyzee

    lachyzee Senior member

    Messages:
    2,120
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2010
    

    As I have said, many people don't ever put their max bids. They just bid enough to be in the lead at any one time, ie exhibiting the behaviour I outlined above.

    If they happen to be away from the computer or asleep when an auction ends, then their max bid never gets entered. If you are the only other bidder, then you might win it for 60% of the other person's actual max bid - because it never gets placed.

    That's what everyone is hoping for.

    There is a very real advantage to this approach (only putting in your max bid if you absolutely have to) in auctions with small amounts of bidders. The possibility of this working grows smaller for every other bidder involved. Obviously, as you have said, the possibility of this working grows smaller when more and more people use a last minute auto-bid program.

    E.g. Person A is willing to buy X for $100, but would of course like to buy it cheaper. The auction starts at $20. Person A bids $30 to be in the lead.

    Person B comes along, also willing to pay $100 for the same jacket. They bid $40 to be in the lead.

    The auction ends, Person B is away from the computer and not using an auto bid program. Person A bids $50 and wins the item.

    compared to:

    Person A is willing to buy X for $100, but would of course like to buy it cheaper. The auction starts at $20. Person A bids $95 to be in the lead.

    Person B comes along, also willing to pay around $100 for the same jacket. They see the current bid at $96 and so bid $100 to be in the lead.

    The auction ends, Person B is away from the computer and not using an auto bid program. Person A bids $101 and wins the item.

    It is a very simplistic example but that is how most auctions play out in real life. As I have said, the more bidders, the less likely this approach is to work. Nevertheless, it is what everyone is hoping for.
     
  5. lachyzee

    lachyzee Senior member

    Messages:
    2,120
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2010
    Basically you behave irrationally (not placing your max bid) in the hope that the other person will also behave irrationally (not placing their max bid) in the hope that the other person will never place their max bid due to being away from the computer when the auction ends. In this way, your initial irrational action of not placing your max bid is rationalised...
     
  6. thebrownman

    thebrownman Senior member

    Messages:
    2,009
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    

    Yeah, same here man. Which is why I had second thoughts.

    Thanks for all the suggestions guys :)
     
  7. Prince of Paisley

    Prince of Paisley Senior member

    Messages:
    4,432
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Location:
    Sydney
    Going to your limit on bid 1 in any auction is not rational - it's dumb.

    If you don't believe me, you are most welcome the next time I sell a property at auction.
     
  8. thebrownman

    thebrownman Senior member

    Messages:
    2,009
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
  9. DartagnanRed

    DartagnanRed Senior member

    Messages:
    984
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2012
    Obviously I do not mean this because eBay is a different type of auction. In your example if you are prepared to pay $400k you bid small and up to this maximum. If the house auction were on eBay, you'd put in your max bid at $400k, and if the current bidding was at $200k, eBay would increase the bid above this based on its standard increment. You would end up with the same result as if you bid up to $400k in 10k increments. You wouldn't bid $500k because that's more than you are prepared to pay. Surely this goes without saying?
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  10. DartagnanRed

    DartagnanRed Senior member

    Messages:
    984
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2012
    Come on, it is bleedingly obvious that eBay uses a different auction system. If it had the same auction system as a house auction, I wouldn't be bothered having this discussion.
     
  11. DartagnanRed

    DartagnanRed Senior member

    Messages:
    984
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2012
    Yes, this was my scenario 4. But you are betting that the other person isn't sniping.

    Perhaps I underestimate the stupidity of eBay users.
     
  12. fxh

    fxh Senior member

    Messages:
    4,864
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Location:
    Melbourne
    No one has mentioned that most "wins" on ebay are obtained whilst tired or drunk or stoned or most likely all of above. (Just like shoe purchases online.)

    What does Hayek say about that?
     
  13. Selvaggio

    Selvaggio Senior member

    Messages:
    583
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Location:
    Australia
    

    Friedrich or Salma?
     
  14. thebrownman

    thebrownman Senior member

    Messages:
    2,009
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Does anyone here watch any of the following:

    The Walking Dead
    Breaking Bad
    Mad Men
    Boardwalk Empire
    Dexter


    If YES, please tell me other shows to watch. I'm likely going to be spending a bit of time recovering post op and want some things to watch on the TV.
     
  15. lachyzee

    lachyzee Senior member

    Messages:
    2,120
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2010
    Sopranos, if you haven't already.
     
  16. g-banger

    g-banger Senior member

    Messages:
    302
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2009
    

    Walking Dead is awesome! Ep5 is out, such a bad ass show.

    Homeland is also great too!

    Cant go wrong with 24 series if you haven seen it yet.
     
  17. thebrownman

    thebrownman Senior member

    Messages:
    2,009
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Episode 5 is to be downloaded tonight and watched immediately. Hurry up 5.30pm!
     
  18. joiji

    joiji Senior member

    Messages:
    1,050
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    I watch Breaking Bad and Walking Dead, although most of my other shoes are comedy, unfortunately.
     
  19. lachyzee

    lachyzee Senior member

    Messages:
    2,120
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2010
    

    It's not stupid though, because almost everyone else exhibits the same behaviour (not placing their max bid if at all possible). Meaning that you will be the stupid one if you place your max bid straight away (as opposed to in the last 30s using a sniper).
    Sure, as more and more people use snipers, it becomes less and less advantageous.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  20. thebrownman

    thebrownman Senior member

    Messages:
    2,009
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    

    joiji, no matter - please suggest others. I will likely have a lot of time on my hands :)
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by