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Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by earthdragon, Nov 18, 2008.

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  1. DartagnanRed

    DartagnanRed Senior member

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    Agreed, there are some idiots out there. Sniping won't help you beat them. In the example your outlined, the obvious response is to place a max bid that is less or equal to RRP and wait. If a particular auction ends up being one of the stupid ones you have described, then sniping isn't going to help you either.

    If you lose, buy at RRP, you beat the idiots.
     
  2. Gerry Nelson

    Gerry Nelson Senior member

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    DR, how do you handle this scenario (I've experienced similar ones)?

    You want to get a Barbour jacket (for example). There are five up on eBay and the auctions are ending at around the same time, say 3:30am because the sellers are in the US. You wouldn't mind winning any one of them but you obviously don't want to end up with five of them. Remember, once your bid is in, that's it. Actually, can you even withdraw eBay bids?

    Without Gixen, I'd need to stay up till the early hours and manage this all manually.
    With Gixen, I can bid on all five and group the bids so that if I win one, all my other bids on the other items are withdrawn.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  3. DartagnanRed

    DartagnanRed Senior member

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    Great example, but that's not sniping per se. I wasn't arguing against Gixen, it obviously makes sense in situations like this.

    But, I assume by "withdrawn" you mean no bid was actually made in the first place because you can't withdraw a bid under eBay's rules (legitimately). So if the auctions are finishing at different times, and likely at different prices, how will software help you?

    I assume that you just put in a blanket max bid in GIxen, and if you win an item below this bid it doesn't bid on the others?
     
  4. jobro

    jobro Senior member

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    If you win an item from one group, it does not place bids on the rest.
     
  5. fxh

    fxh Senior member

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    Really??
    I'm shocked I tell you.

    Shocked.
     
  6. Gerry Nelson

    Gerry Nelson Senior member

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    You put your bids into Gixen, not eBay, and set up individual bids on each of the auctions. At the predetermined time (say 3 seconds before the auction ends), Gixen will submit the bid on your behalf. If you group multiple bids together, and one of your bids wins the auction, Gixen won't submit the other bids so yes, no eBay bid will be made on your behalf.

    Say there are 5 auctions and you've set up the service to bid on all of them, You lose the first two to higher bidders and win the third one. Gixen will not submit your bids for auctions 4 and 5. All this happens automatically. It takes away the emotional aspect of the bidding and all you need to do is wake up and check to see if you've won anything or not.

    I thought sniping was the action of putting in your bid at the last possible moment. How would the case above not be considered sniping?
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  7. lachyzee

    lachyzee Senior member

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    This is true if you are happy to place your rational max bid at any point during the action, but for the reasons others have outlined at length, bids placed in the last 30s are usually going to serve you best in my opinion. If you use eBay itself to do this, then you are watching the auction at that moment, leading to an increased chance that you will up your bid due to adrenaline etc. from what your limit really is.

    If you get a program to do it for you, then you walk away and that temptation is removed.
     
  8. fxh

    fxh Senior member

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    To add to the basic economics class. ( I'm just waiting for someone to post a curve.)

    I'm always amused that people "win" something on ebay. As I see it you BUY something not win it.

    Winning at auction is part of the mentality that ensures people, often, pay more than an item is worth. Except that clearly an item is worth almost exactly what it sells for.
    Sadly you can always assume that if you "win" an auction you have paid MORE than what anyone else (The Market?) thinks its worth.

    One way to test the value of an item is to immediately re-list it yourself and see what happens.

    Buyer's/Winner's remorse anyone?
     
  9. lachyzee

    lachyzee Senior member

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    I think some of the anti-Gixen arguments above miss the crucial point that people DON'T put their rational max bid on an ebay item when they first bid on it.

    They are far more likely to bid in small increments just above the current displayed bid until they are just ahead. If someone later beats their bid, they will place another until they get to their maximum.

    I don't think many people stick their maximum into the bid window as their first bid. They would rather keep the auction as low as possible.

    I'm not going to go into why this is the case, but in reality, this is the way most auctions play out.
     
  10. DartagnanRed

    DartagnanRed Senior member

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    Which leads to a most sobering discovery: People use sniping tools to handle their own irrationality, not that of others.
     
  11. DartagnanRed

    DartagnanRed Senior member

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    First, I'm not arguing against Gixen which I understand is more than just a sniping tool.

    As for the rest of this, I think I have addressed this at least twice in what I've already written. It should not affect your behaviour if others aren't putting their max bids in, because you can assume that at some point they will put those bids in, either through the normal bidding process or through sniping.

    You will end up paying the same amount in most auctions, unless the other person is irrationally not posting their max bid AND they aren't sniping. This is increasingly unlikely.
     
  12. DartagnanRed

    DartagnanRed Senior member

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    This is part of the altruistic thing I was posting before. An individualistic buyer wouldn't care whether he won or lost, just that he paid the right price to him. eBay is set up to encourage this sort of behaviour, to take a bigger cut of sales as JM described.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  13. lachyzee

    lachyzee Senior member

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winner's_curse

    Yes fxh but this theory assumes equal knowledge of and desireability of the item by all parties.

    To quote from wiki:

    "There is often confusion that winner's curse applies to the winners of all auctions. However, it is worth repeating here that for auctions with private value (i.e. when the item is desired independent of its value in the market), winner's curse does not arise. Similarly there may be occasions when the average bid is too low relative to exterior market conditions e.g. a dealer recognising an antique or other collectable as highly saleable elsewhere when other bidders do not have the necessary expertise."

    I think the above is very often the case with clothing auctions, meaning that winner's curse doesn't apply.
     
  14. Henry Carter

    Henry Carter Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    It all sounds too complicated for me. Think I'll just stick to buy it nows. I mainly just buy fly fishing stuff anyway and prefer when possible to buy off stores that sell new stuff with warranty.
     
  15. fxh

    fxh Senior member

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    Small anecdote ( I know I know - the plural of anecdote is not data and data is not information; information is not knowledge; knowledge is not wisdom.)

    A few years back I purchased my garage gym from a warehouse in Altona.
    I found them through ebay but noticed they also had a physical store at the warehouse. So I just drove out and perused their showroom.
    When picking it up I asked the bloke why he listed on ebay auctions.
    He said the vast majority of ebay sales were a significant way above his standard store price he advertised at and very few were ever below the standard price.

    His standard store price was easily found by a simple few clicks and/ or a search.
     
  16. thebrownman

    thebrownman Senior member

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    I haven't anything to contribute to this eBay bidding discussion.

    In my shoe-related news, I've decided on burgundy calfskin, but am having second thoughts about whether to get the tassel loafer or the penny loafer...

    Decisions, decisions.
     
  17. The Ernesto

    The Ernesto Senior member

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    Penny for mine.

    Tassel = all show no go.

    Then again, I'm old and boring.
     
  18. Prince of Paisley

    Prince of Paisley Senior member

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    The answer is scenario 4 is not just very likely, but very common - which was my original point. You are actually an idiot if you put your maximum bid in first - who does that in any type of auction?? Do you go to a property auction prepared to pay $400k for a house and when the bidding starts at $200k you bid $500k? Or do you start around $210k and hope against hope the auction doesn't get anywhere near your limit so you can secure the property at the lowest price possible?

    See this short video for a demonstration of what I mean:

    http://www.movieweb.com/dvd/DVefIlegVgkahg/scene-at-the-auction
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  19. Selvaggio

    Selvaggio Senior member

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    I think I'd vote tassel as it is less common and a bit from-another-era, but you've already got some of that goodnes with it being burgundy and the penny is probably more versatile. I could spend days on that one.
     
  20. Naka

    Naka Senior member

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    Penny. Tassels for the #menswear look, if you can pull it off!
     
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