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Athleisure Wear Going Out Of Style?

rjc149

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agree regarding the weather. It’s tough In The extreme heat, and adjustments are allowed.

Re: tipping.
i still tip within the acceptable range.
i do not give an exceptional tip if the service is not exceptional.
it’s not fair to the servers at restaurants that do provide exceptional service to just give everyone the same tip. That would be like a teacher who gives all their students A’s, even the ones who do not try as hard or do as well.
I agree obviously, but I don't deem factors outside of the waitstaff's control to be an aspect of their service. If a fine-dining establishment allows its patrons to wear Yankees caps, that's an issue with management, not the service staff. You penalize the management by not eating there.

I was a busboy and server in my early 20's at a higher-end French bistro in what is basically a New Jersey neighborhood of lower Manhattan. I thought snotty assholes treating waitstaff like shit to look/feel powerful were only in movies. Nope.

There's a scene in the movie Ben Hur, where the titular character is enslaved and serves as an oarman on a Roman galley, chained to the oar. The ship sinks in a battle, but he manages to escape the manacles while his fellow oarmen all drown, and he saves the life of ship's captain. They are then rescued from floating wreckage by another Roman galley. As Ben Hur is treated to a hero's welcome on the ship, knowing he just bought his ticket home, he looks down into the bilge at the oarmen rowing to the beat of the drum.

That's me whenever I see a busboy clearing my table. Please treat them kindly.
 

The_Shooter

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.

At the risk of making a racial generalization, I too have received the most genuine compliments on my attire from black men, Asian men, and Indian men.
a work colleague recently returned from Tokyo. Woman, mid-50’s, she generally carries herself well. Asian American woman.

her top compliment?
How well all the men dressed. So many nice suits and they all looked so handsome.

I do believe that there are enough cultures out there that still care about presentation that the McDonald’s fast food culture that has dominated many segments of Americana will never truly be the norm.
 

The_Shooter

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You sound like the kind of person who has never worked a day of manual labor or dealt with jackasses on a daily basis as a server. Especially not in a pandemic.

That is seriously some toxic attitude about people who are struggling the most right now.

A little compassion and empathy for those who are having it harder than us would go a long way towards healing right now.
hold on
Pump the brakes
Re the tip:
As I have said, it’s not like I stiff the waiters at sloppy establishments. I just don’t tip as well. Nor should we.

15% was always the base for tipping.
revent years it has moved to 20%
I generally tip 20% as the base.
for exceptional service o go 25% (usually reserved for restaurants with dress codes or that put a little effort into their service such as using table clothes or a few extra attempts at atmosphere).
the restaurants that do not put in the extra effort do not get the extra tip.
And the ones that maintain a sloppy appearance receive a 20% tip rounded down instead of rounded up.

I’m not Scrooge mcduck over here.

but at the same time I do believe that those who put more effort into the heir service deserve better tips, because I deserve that extra effort.
 

TomTom

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a work colleague recently returned from Tokyo. Woman, mid-50’s, she generally carries herself well. Asian American woman.

her top compliment?
How well all the men dressed. So many nice suits and they all looked so handsome.

I do believe that there are enough cultures out there that still care about presentation that the McDonald’s fast food culture that has dominated many segments of Americana will never truly be the norm.
Yep, I can see where is she coming from. I used to travel to one of our corporate offices in Osaka and always saw everybody in suits and ties. I know work in academia and once got a nasty comment :'' Why do you always dress like that?'' My answer was : Because I'm a grown man not a toddler and i try to show respect to the environment I work in.'' Silence for about 10s until the Principal of The University ( like a Dean) said loudly '' Well said and long it may continue.'' That was the last time anybody said anything.
 

The_Shooter

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Yep, I can see where is she coming from. I used to travel to one of our corporate offices in Osaka and always saw everybody in suits and ties. I know work in academia and once got a nasty comment :'' Why do you always dress like that?'' My answer was : Because I'm a grown man not a toddler and i try to show respect to the environment I work in.'' Silence for about 10s until the Principal of The University ( like a Dean) said loudly '' Well said and long it may continue.'' That was the last time anybody said anything.
i still prefer the:
“My (insert item of clothing the slob is wearing) is at the cleaners…”
Response

not That I actually even say that too often, as I’m above the petttiness. But that’s the best response in my opinion.
 

ladislav.jancik

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the restaurants that do not put in the extra effort do not get the extra tip.
I am not an American so I don't know how this does work exactly, but it seems to me that you do penalize waitress service instead of restaurant itself. Maybe you should consider to not go to eat to such restaurants instead of reducing your tipping that goes to waitress pocket?
 

The_Shooter

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I am not an American so I don't know how this does work exactly, but it seems to me that you do penalize waitress service instead of restaurant itself. Maybe you should consider to not go to eat to such restaurants instead of reducing your tipping that goes to waitress pocket?
In america there is a tipping range. 15-20% the norm, with 18% generally the accepted amount.
20% is a lot easier math so that became the new norm.

for places that go above and beyond, 22-25% can be expected.

also debatable whether you tip on alcohol. If you only have a couple of drinks, yes. The waiter has to go get every drink. But if you have expensive bottle of wine and all it took was unscrewing a cork of a bottle already marked up 400%, generally no, you don’t tip the full amount on that.

if a restaurant puts the extra effort into service, I give 22-20%
If not, I don’t. I keep it to 20%.
if a restaurant allows some slob to wear a baseball cap at the table next to me I will round down and they might get 19.5%.

I think that is fair. In america we should expect better.
 

The_Shooter

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I’m not sure when customer satisfaction and customer service became an entitlement?
Part of the new world order I guess.

I ordered an appliance recently. 2 months later it’s still “in transit.” Whatever, no rush on my end to receive it. But I can’t even get an update. Just let me know, 2 weeks? A month? 2 more months? I will adjust. But just keep me posted.

but I guess that would be considered “entitlement” in today’s society where the customer is always wrong.
 

rjc149

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In real life practice, most people just round their tip up to the next integer rather than do the arithmetic of leaving a precise percentage off the bill.

So I'm frequently leaving over 20% even though I do the math in my head for 20%.

if a restaurant puts the extra effort into service, I give 22-20%
If not, I don’t. I keep it to 20%.
if a restaurant allows some slob to wear a baseball cap at the table next to me I will round down and they might get 19.5%.

I think that is fair. In america we should expect better.
You have to understand -- you are not tipping the restaurant for table service, you are tipping the waitstaff.

The restaurant may allow people to wear ballcaps -- but the waitstaff has no control over this.

The restaurant is a company. The server is the human being taking care of you.

You are misdirecting your displeasure at ballcap wearing.

Also, the federal minimum wage is much less for tipped employees. I remember it was $2 per hour, God I hope it's higher now. Which means that waitstaff relies on tips to make a living. I get that you're talking the difference between 19.5% and 22%, but the principle behind it is misguided.
 

The_Shooter

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In real life practice, most people just round their tip up to the next integer rather than do the arithmetic of leaving a precise percentage off the bill.

So I'm frequently leaving over 20% even though I do the math in my head for 20%.


You have to understand -- you are not tipping the restaurant for table service, you are tipping the waitstaff.

The restaurant may allow people to wear ballcaps -- but the waitstaff has no control over this.

The restaurant is a company. The server is the human being taking care of you.

You are misdirecting your displeasure at ballcap wearing.

Also, the federal minimum wage is much less for tipped employees. I remember it was $2 per hour, God I hope it's higher now. Which means that waitstaff relies on tips to make a living. I get that you're talking the difference between 19.5% and 22%, but the principle behind it is misguided.
you have to understand:
I’m not “stiffing” the waitstaff. I am still tipping in the accepted range.

but I view the “service” as the entire experience.

at a restaurant where they have a person assigned to filling the water, a main waiter assigned to taking the order, another person or persons assigned to bringing out the food…
I will tip that wait staff a higher percentage because they put more effort into the service, excelled at what they did, and did what they had to in order to earn the extra percentage.

what Is wrong with giving a better tip to those who put more effort into their service? Have the participation trophies really taken over the service industry as well?

I believe that claiming we have an obligation to treat all service providers equally, even if one clearly outperforms the other, is misguided.
 

rjc149

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what Is wrong with giving a better tip to those who put more effort into their service? Have the participation trophies really taken over the service industry as well?
No there is nothing wrong with this -- but how is the schlub seated next to you wearing a ballcap a reflection of the waitstaff's effort and performance? That's the disconnect we're having here.

The waitstaff is going the whole 9 yards to take care of you, but get dinged on their tip -- however slightly -- because someone's wearing a hat. That's not right.

And trust me, people wearing hats in sit-down restaurants is a pet peeve of mine. But that's an issue I have with those individuals, not the restaurant and certainly not the waitstaff.
 
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Leiker

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No there is nothing wrong with this -- but how is the schlub seated next to you wearing a ballcap a reflection of the waitstaff's effort and performance? That's the disconnect we're having here.

The waitstaff is going the whole 9 yards to take care of you, but get dinged on their tip -- however slightly -- because someone's wearing a hat. That's not right.

And trust me, people wearing hats in sit-down restaurants is a pet peeve of mine. But that's an issue I have with those individuals, not the restaurant.
Exactly. The issue is with restaurant management and not the wait staff. By lowering the tip amount when patrons wear hats, one is punishing the wait staff and communicating exactly nothing to management.
 

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