At what point do prospective employers stop asking for references?

[Recoil]

I understand when they're hiring for entry-level positions employer's still feel compelled to rely on references (a flawed construct, but I digress). At what point do prospective employer's stop asking for references? I imagine when you are hiring an executive it can get rather competitive and a high-value employee isn't going to tip-off their current employer that they are thinking of jumping ship. Put another way, I don't think a CFO looking to become CEO at another company goes to his "boss" to ask if it's ok to put him down for a reference. When do you start getting judged based on your interview alone, and not other peoples' opinion of you? Is iit age, a certain position level?

 

[Joffrey]

Never. References may not matter if you know someone that's hooking you up with a job (but then again that connection is basically your reference since they're going to bat for you). When you're c-level or senior management references matter because a ton is at stake. When you're entry level references matter because a ****** one is good reason to take candidate 26 of 71 off the list. References really are a pretty dumb thing to worry about. Always make sure you have decent references. Old professors, colleagues that happened to become good friends, old bosses that you got a long well with. When quitting a job always ask if you can use them as a reference.

PS - this isn't from my experience but I would guess references may not matter around 5 years into your career. You're no longer fresh meat but you aren't nearly important enough yet for a company to lose sleep over it. However, this isn't a theory I've dared test. I don't list references in many resumes I send around but I have a list of contacts to provide on short notice if needed.

 

[Medwed]



Always make sure you have decent references. Old professors, colleagues that happened to become good friends, old bosses that you got a long well with. When quitting a job always ask if you can use them as a reference.

This is exactly why references provided by the candidate are BS and don't matter to me. There will never be a case of objective reference because they are all from "friends and family",so to speak.
If you r hiring for exec level make sure your HR-useless **** speaks to their HR-useless **** to make sure there is no long, stinky trail of personal complains and personality issues with that hire. Of course in formulaic corp. world very few employers do that and thus corporate driftwood keeps circulating.

 

[Douglas]

I have hired for every position up and down the gamut. I have hired consulting firms, executive recruiters, vendors, contractors, you name it.

Never, not once, would I consider hiring or awarding a contract without asking for, and interviewing, references.

I do understand that references can be problematic, but you have to try to find a way to ask the right questions and learn to listen for little pauses and hesitations and withheld information to help paint the picture.

It's not foolproof, but nothing is. As you say, you're only going to get the friends and family they want you to talk to, but the same is true for the interview - you're only going to get the answers and the personality traits they want you to see during the interview. The more data points, the better. And for exec-level hires, where the cost of a bad hire is far higher than for entry-level hires, the references are even more important.

Frankly, I would expect an exec-level hire to understand this and give me good references that demonstrate their ability to synthesize what I need and why I need it. Obviously, that may not include members of their current team, but for example, if I were hiring a GM, I would expect his past CEO/Board, as well as others including direct reports in senior management that would be able to vouch for his/her effective management abilities from a 360-degree perspective. And I'd expect they'd have prepped these folks to be relatively open.

Also remember references are a lot more than just "should I hire this person, are they 'good?'" They are about plenty of other things, verification of certain experiences, questions of style and culture that may be inherently neither good nor bad but do represent whether or not someone will be a good fit in your organization, heads-ups about certain comfort zones or discomfort zones that you may need to be aware of even after you've made the hire.

So the answer to your question is: there is no level where prospective hires don't get asked for references.

 

[VinnyMac]

This is exactly why references provided by the candidate are BS and don't matter to me. There will never be a case of objective reference because they are all from "friends and family",so to speak.
If you r hiring for exec level make sure your HR-useless **** speaks to their HR-useless **** to make sure there is no long, stinky trail of personal complains and personality issues with that hire. Of course in formulaic corp. world very few employers do that and thus corporate driftwood keeps circulating.

A lot companies won't provide that type of information for fear of lawsuits. I'm not sure if you've ever actually been involved with it, but with a lot of corporations, it's a no-go, so I wouldn't bank on it.

 

[Medwed]



A lot companies won't provide that type of information for fear of lawsuits. I'm not sure if you've ever actually been involved with it, but with a lot of corporations, it's a no-go, so I wouldn't bank on it.

99% will not disclose the contents but to inquire if such record exists and if it is a lengthy one has never been a problem.

 

[Recoil]

Interesting feedback.Thanks. I'm still amazed that high-level people put themselves at risk by asking for references and possibly angering their current employer.

 

[VinnyMac]

99% will not disclose the contents but to inquire if such record exists and if it is a lengthy one has never been a problem.

That's not true for most major corporations. Most of them won't disclose much other than employee start and end dates because of the risk of being sued for giving the exact info that you mentioned. Actually try it, and let us know how it worked out. Letting you play "Go Fish" with an employee's record is as risky as outright telling you, and they aren't motivated to risk it. HR policies vary, but they're usually pretty strict about this. Ground-level people just aren't aware of it (like many HR policies).

Most of the larger corporations that I've worked for/with would frown upon anyone outside of HR even providing a reference in the company's name (that includes mentioning company documents and records). Again, most people don't know that until something bad happens and the company starts strictly enforcing it. Giving an unrealistically positive or negative reference in the company's name can lead to a lawsuit, so most corporations stick to the bare minimum...which is why references are usually either completely useless or from friends (not company reps).

 

[JJeff]

References are important early in a career because they do provide the ability, even if it is flawed, to see into a persons character and work ethic. As you progress higher in your career, your track record ultimately becomes your references. A CFO shouldn't have to ask his boss to be a reference for him to jump ship and become the CEO. What he has accomplished while working for his current boss should speak loudly enough to qualify as all of the references he needs. When your work speaks loudly enough for itself is when they will stop asking for a reference.