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Ask A Question, Get An Answer... - Post All Quick Questions Here (Classic menswear)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Master-Classter, Sep 28, 2008.

  1. Rugger

    Rugger Senior member

    Messages:
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    Sep 16, 2010
    Derby/Blücher are laced shoes with open lacing. example:

    [​IMG]

    While oxford/balmoral have closed lacing, example:

    [​IMG]



    That's the only difference?
     
  2. onix

    onix Senior member

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    Jan 19, 2009
    That's the only difference?

    Yes.
     
  3. SupeMassivePowerTrip

    SupeMassivePowerTrip Well-Known Member

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    Sydney, Australia
    http://www.marksandspencer.com/Autog...elated-items-3

    Have my eyes set on this suit. Going to grad this year so will need something for interviews. I heard that m&s make decent suits from the owner of TaT. It looks ok in the video except they drape weirdly when walking. Should I cop?
     
  4. retozimmermann

    retozimmermann Senior member

    Messages:
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    Jul 9, 2009
    Location:
    Seoul
    Yes.

    While in the US there might not be a difference between a Blücher and a Derby in common language usage, there is definitely a difference in the original European terms.

    It is true that both shoe types have open lacing as opposed to an Oxford with it's closed lacing, but they are not the same.

    On a derby there is an Arch in the quarters that extends from the lacing down to the sole. Example:
    [​IMG]

    On a blücher, on the other hand, you have no such part. Like here:
    [​IMG]

    The whole Derby/Blucher confusion is similar to the the often unclear usage of Oxford and Balmoral, which are two different types of shoes as well but where the US-terminology doesn't seem to make this distinction.

    Cheers
    Reto
     
  5. onix

    onix Senior member

    Messages:
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    While in the US there might not be a difference between a Blücher and a Derby in common language usage, there is definitely a difference in the original European terms.

    It is true that both shoe types have open lacing as opposed to an Oxford with it's closed lacing, but they are not the same.

    On a derby there is an Arch in the quarters that extends from the lacing down to the sole. Example:
    [​IMG]

    On a blücher, on the other hand, you have no such part. Like here:
    [​IMG]

    The whole Derby/Blucher confusion is similar to the the often unclear usage of Oxford and Balmoral, which are two different types of shoes as well but where the US-terminology doesn't seem to make this distinction.

    Cheers
    Reto


    Are you sure? I've never heard of such distinction. Both of these pairs are called "derby" by Alfred Sargent.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Surreal

    Surreal Senior member

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    Sep 1, 2010
    Location:
    Soviet Region
    What do you think about these suits. Both are Pierre Cardin and from wool.

    This costs around $700:
    [​IMG]

    This was a bit cheaper, around $500, I think:
    [​IMG]

    Worth it?
     
  7. IsteRed

    IsteRed Senior member

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    Hello,anybody knows where i can get MOP white buttons for blazer?i have a navy blazer that i wear mostly with white shirts and i think that changing to white buttons will look smoking hot,what would you say?[​IMG]
     
  8. bleachboy

    bleachboy Senior member

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    Nashville
    Hello,anybody knows where i can get MOP white buttons for blazer?i have a navy blazer that i wear mostly with white shirts and i think that changing to white buttons will look smoking hot,what would you say?[​IMG]
    Right here.
     
  9. easy_golfing

    easy_golfing Senior member

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    Jan 30, 2011
    Just curious, but are shoes from Nordstrom Rack original or are they "made for" as some of the clothes are?
     
  10. dah328

    dah328 Senior member

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    Just curious, but are shoes from Nordstrom Rack original or are they "made for" as some of the clothes are?
    Some are definitely not made for Nordstrom Rack but there do appear to be some pretty low-end shoes there, too.
     
  11. sho'nuff

    sho'nuff Senior member

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    Irvine
  12. IsteRed

    IsteRed Senior member

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    Right here.

    Thanks!
     
  13. CHECKstar

    CHECKstar Senior member

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    Melbourne
    Just received a shirt in the mail from Modern Tailor that I will need to get adjusted at the waist - I am just going to take it to a local tailor to get darts put in. Question - should I launder it a few times beforehand for shrinkage and if so, how many times?
     
  14. retozimmermann

    retozimmermann Senior member

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Seoul
    Are you sure? I've never heard of such distinction. Both of these pairs are called "derby" by Alfred Sargent.

    That's interesting. I am quite certain but cannot find a good reference at the moment. But obviously there are a lot of sources who use the terms to mean the same.

    I still think that this is not entirely correct because the two shoes which I would distinguish with the two terms are clearly different shoes with different uppers.

    Does anyone have an expert opinion on this?

    Cheers
    Reto
     
  15. onix

    onix Senior member

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    That's interesting. I am quite certain but cannot find a good reference at the moment. But obviously there are a lot of sources who use the terms to mean the same.

    I still think that this is not entirely correct because the two shoes which I would distinguish with the two terms are clearly different shoes with different uppers.

    Does anyone have an expert opinion on this?

    Cheers
    Reto


    I went to both John Lobb and Edward Green websites and their derby shoes include both types. Now, it is a possibility that there was such distinction before, but it now becomes obsolete. I don't entirely dismiss your opinion, just that I haven't heard of that before.
     
  16. Ianiceman

    Ianiceman Senior member

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    Keyboard War Room
    I went to both John Lobb and Edward Green websites and their derby shoes include both types. Now, it is a possibility that there was such distinction before, but it now becomes obsolete. I don't entirely dismiss your opinion, just that I haven't heard of that before.

    Cosigning this. There may be individual entities who use a (possibly archaic?) distinction between the two illustrated versions of derbies but most reference books, websites, vendors and sales assistants use the terms in their more generic sense and would include both, so any actual distinction has rightly or wrongly fallen by the wayside in common parlance. It's now gotten to the point where the term 'oxford' bleeds over to include open laced shoes too, and 'loafer' to include just about any slip on shoe.

    It's a bit like the term 'button down' which outside of America means a button collar shirt, but in the ever more casual US it's often used to denote a shirt with 'buttons down the front' as opposed to a polo or t shirt.
     
  17. Pieceofsand

    Pieceofsand Senior member

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    Dec 3, 2010
    Can I use hearing aid battery for my watch replacement or should I use watch battery specifically for my new watch? It's an analog of course.
     
  18. binge

    binge Senior member

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    Jan 5, 2008
    Location:
    San Francisco
    What do you think about these suits. Both are Pierre Cardin and from wool.
    ...
    Worth it?


    Tough call, comparatively each has pros and cons. The first jacket appears to have more problems than the second, but the pants on the second look too tight, with bunching around the knee, fitting almost like slim jeans. The jacket in the first has obvious problems with the left-arm sleeve, as you can see in the side-shot with the bunching behind the upper arm. Also, the back on the first jacket has some weird wrinkle in the center, below the collar. Some of those wrinkles could be exaggerated by the lighting and reflection from the fabric. Also, the first jacket might be a tad short. It looks to cover your butt, but compared to the second, looks a little short. The second just looks to be a better length, but that could be due to different camera angles.

    In both cases, the pants need to be hemmed. When trying on, tuck the pant cuffs inward and up so that the pant leg is to the mid-point of your laces, to give a better idea of how the pants
    will hang when not all bunched at the foot.

    Are either of them worth it? Hard to say. I wouldn't go for it, but I don't know about your other constraints. What is your budget? What is your timetable? What are your other choices? Do you have a lot of suit-shopping options? How much time+effort do you want to spend?
     
  19. Archivist

    Archivist Senior member

    Messages:
    688
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    Jan 23, 2010
    I am taking a navy blazer with basted sleeves to the tailor to be finished with shank buttons.
    Are shank buttons meant to be sewn on with or without button hole stitching? I am assuming the later, but have never had this done. Thanks!


    It's just preference. You can do it either way:


    None:
    [​IMG]

    Working, with stitching obvi:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  20. cptjeff

    cptjeff Senior member

    Messages:
    4,642
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2010
    Location:
    DCish
    Cosigning this. There may be individual entities who use a (possibly archaic?) distinction between the two illustrated versions of derbies but most reference books, websites, vendors and sales assistants use the terms in their more generic sense and would include both, so any actual distinction has rightly or wrongly fallen by the wayside in common parlance. It's now gotten to the point where the term 'oxford' bleeds over to include open laced shoes too, and 'loafer' to include just about any slip on shoe.

    It's a bit like the term 'button down' which outside of America means a button collar shirt, but in the ever more casual US it's often used to denote a shirt with 'buttons down the front' as opposed to a polo or t shirt.


    A lot of shoe terminology is mixed up and differs amongst areas and sources. I certainly would not call the distinction you make between blucher and derby meaningful.

    Hell, oxford, in its original usage, was simply in reference to any short shoe as opposed to a boot, as was the style in oxford at the time. They were made with closed lacing at the time becuase they were basically chopped off dress boots, what we know as a balmoral boot, of course. Of course, that style took over soon and they started making the shoe/boot distinction instead, and oxford started referring to a type of shoe. And even more confusingly, you still run across the word used in its original sense. Thus an open laced gunboat gets lumped in the 'oxford' category on occasion.

    And as a sidenote, oxfords as the lower cut shoe, were viewed much as many SFers still view loafers- as inappropriate in anything but casual settings. Becuase I often harp on the complete and utter arbitrariness of distinctions of formality, gotta throw that in there.
     

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