Ask a Fitness Model

Discussion in 'Health & Body' started by Noir., Jan 16, 2009.

  1. Noir.

    Noir. Senior member

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    Lance brought up intermittent fasting. I mentioned I hadn't done the necessary research yet to give a very informed comment about it. I think he was interested in your viewpoints regarding the subject.
     


  2. why

    why Senior member

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    Why the fuck would anyone even ask? What research is there to be done?

    Why does there need to be some Internet personality's stamp of approval for someone to try it out?

    In my experience the biggest reason diet is so heavily researched is because lazy fat people want someone else to do everything for them.
     


  3. jcd

    jcd Member

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    Lance brought up intermittent fasting. I mentioned I hadn't done the necessary research yet to give a very informed comment about it. I think he was interested in your viewpoints regarding the subject.

    well, I am not really biased towards any type of dieting protocol. As far as I am concerned as long as protein and EFA requirements are met, the only thing that matters is that a deficit is created.

    I am not a huge advocate of the 5-6 meal thing (as you know if you read the article). I have been on both ends of the spectrum as far as meal frequency goes. I even tested out a period of time when I only ate 2 meals, 1 after noon and one right before bed at about 10pm. I have done various intermittent fasting stints with success as well. I know of people who have had tremendous success with doing 1-2 24 hour fasts per week. I however haven't tried this.

    its all a matter of getting the proper nutrients. meal timing does not matter. the glycemic index does not matter. the insulin response does not matter. This is even more so true when in a caloric deficit.
     


  4. James Bond

    James Bond Senior member

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    its all a matter of getting the proper nutrients. meal timing does not matter. the glycemic index does not matter. the insulin response does not matter. This is even more so true when in a caloric deficit.

    This contradicts the vast majority of reputable sports nutritionists.
     


  5. whacked

    whacked Senior member

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    This contradicts the vast majority of reputable sports nutritionists.

    Had people always listened to "conventional wisdom", everyone would eat the same way they did 300 years ago. No protein supplements, no "superfoods", no ketogenic diet, no IF etc.


    Just saying.
     


  6. jcd

    jcd Member

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    This contradicts the vast majority of reputable sports nutritionists.
    ehhh... this may go against the vast majority of incompetent trainers and RD's from the stone age... but not against fact based data and nutritional science.

    there is no truth in the multiple meal thing "stoking the metabolic fire". That has been proven bunk over and over not just thru trials but also through many's personal experiences and experimentation. at the rate the body digest food it's all the same anyhow. If you eat 3 large meals or 6 smaller meals... the digestion of each meal is overlapping due to macro composition anyway. fiber, fat, protein slows digestion considerably. this is why the insulin response and glycemic index doesn't matter because the mixing of macros will only slow the digestion altogether. For instance: eating some plain white bread may be a "no no" to some because of the fear of an insulin spike, add peanut butter and the GI rating goes way down (not that it would matter if you ate it plain anyway).

    Had people always listened to "conventional wisdom", everyone would eat the same way they did 300 years ago. No protein supplements, no "superfoods", no ketogenic diet, no IF etc.

    Just saying.

    well I am sure a lot of people back in the day IF'ed due to no food being available for multiple days at a time, not because they were worried about having ripped abs. We have to look at the big picture.

    and what people have nowadays regarding nutrition is not really "conventional wisdom" but more of silly dogma that will just not die. ie: 6-8 meals a day, only 30g of protein can be digested at one sitting, if you dont eat every three hours your body will be in a catabolic state.... ehh I could go on for days, but I don't even know you guys yet!
     


  7. James Bond

    James Bond Senior member

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    Had people always listened to "conventional wisdom", everyone would eat the same way they did 300 years ago. No protein supplements, no "superfoods", no ketogenic diet, no IF etc.


    Just saying.


    Those aren't nutritionists I would consider reputable, nor are they the ones to whom I am referring.
     


  8. Noir.

    Noir. Senior member

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    ^^i'm sure i'll comment again later when I have the time, but I find the comments made very offensive. The response was lacking in tact and language used seemed designed to insight hostility. I don't appreciate in the slightest being called "incompitent" for advocating something that has worked for me and every single client I've had. Not some; not most - every. single. one.

    Like I said I haven't read enough about IF yet but I will. However, if it worked so much better then everyone who had access to the information would use it. Top competitors, fitness models, et. al included. They don't.
     


  9. wiscogooner

    wiscogooner Senior member

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    if it worked so much better then everyone who had access to the information would use it. Top competitors, fitness models, et. al included. They don't.
    FTW If it's proven to work, then it has credence. There's lots of fads and no one right way to do things. That's life though.
     


  10. JoelF

    JoelF Senior member

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    Ahh okay. It hinted at higher protein requiring higher fluid intakes to compensate. I was just trying to rationalize it, not saying it was your imagination. Sorry if it came off that way [​IMG]

    How much water are you drinking? try to get at least a gallon a day if at all possible and see if it helps. I have no idea if supplementing electrolytes would make a difference, but try it and see. Amino Vital might work. I think you can find it in bottles in the grocery store or in a powder form if you want to mix it yourself. Like I said I have no idea, but I don't think it would hurt.

    Noir's Secret to fluid intake:
    Crystal Light. Not a whole lot in the stuff but 1 pitcher gets you halfway there. Most of the time I do 1/2gal of just water and a pitcher & a half of crystal light a day if I can. (roughly 1.25gal)


    Sounds like good advice, will try. Thanks! [​IMG]

    And very sorry to see the troll(s) making their appearance in your excellent thread.
     


  11. jcd

    jcd Member

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    ^^i'm sure i'll comment again later when I have the time, but I find the comments made very offensive. The response was lacking in tact and language used seemed designed to insight hostility. I don't appreciate in the slightest being called "incompitent" for advocating something that has worked for me and every single client I've had. Not some; not most - every. single. one.


    Noir, I was not aiming to offend you or anyone else on the board.. Why are you taking offense about my comment on incompetent trainers? Surely you are not incompetent if your clients are getting results? I have no motives to degrade anyone or be hostile in any way. That is not who I am, nor do I have the time/desire to argue on the internet.

    I am not stating that the 6+ meal thing does not work. Sure it works just fine. But so does 2 or 3 meals a day. If you read my post you would know I have been on both sides of the fence(even more so if you read the article), so I know full well that both work. I was simply stating that it's only a matter of calories. that's all. If calories and protein requirements are met... its not too big of a deal what the rest of the diet or meal timing looks like.

    actually Martin Berkhan of LeanGains has worked with some fitness competitors who have done very well using an IF approach. here is the testimonials page just so you can look around and explore at your convenience.
    http://leangains.blogspot.com/2007/0...interview.html



    FTW

    If it's proven to work, then it has credence.

    There's lots of fads and no one right way to do things. That's life though.

    sure, lots and lots of fads out there. Look at all of the diet pills and new "weight loss breakthroughs" etc... fads come and go. one just needs to be able to sift through the BS that is so rampant within this fitness/modeling/bodybuilding industry.

    ciao
     


  12. Big A

    Big A Senior member

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    Noir: I'd be interested in your comments on the following. I read through the thread and feel like there's a lot of information that conflicts with my personal experience. Here is my info:

    Age: 37 - Ht: 5'10" - Wt. 170

    I have been up and down over the years and was over 200 with about 28% bf when I started the most recent program, which I've been on for about 4 months.

    Basically, I lift as heavy as I can, 1-2 sets, 3-4 reps per set, on the last set I decline the weight to 50% of the start. I decline 10-20 lbs at a time depending on what I'm doing (on leg press I pull off 90 lbs at a time). I try to do 4-5 exercises per body part, one part per week in this order - Chest/Back/Legs/Shoulders/Arms/Rest/Rest

    After 4 months I'm down 30 lbs, body fat is now at 15% - not great, but not bad considering. Waist went from 37-33, chest from 40-44, arms up 2" thighs up 3". Bench went from 115 to 210, leg press from 270 - 630. Best results I've ever had.

    Diet is protein heavy, but not Atkins or keto. Basically, I try to eat most of my simple carbs in the morning, and stick to veggies and such during the day. At breakfast I try to limit the fat. I try to consume at least two handful-sized portions of protein at each meal. One day a week I eat whatever I want. I eat very little refined sugar or junk food, even on my off day (just don't seem to want it anymore).

    So here's what I've realized - first, actual amounts of calories consumed bears no relationship to weight loss. I have not counted calories, and clearly I am eating more of them than I was when I was overweight. I assume not all calories are used the same way. I think trying to operate at a "caloric deficit" is a mistake, and it's why most people fail.

    Also, high rep / multiple set exercise seems to have no actual benefit for me. I'm not saying it will work for everyone, but I can't help but feel that a lot of folks in the gym are churning away for no reason.
     


  13. why

    why Senior member

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    Those aren't nutritionists I would consider reputable, nor are they the ones to whom I am referring.
    That's the definition of ignorance, really. I think I stated what jcd said multiple times in the past and even in this thread regarding digestion, calories, and protein. Making diets complex is a way to make money, not to produce results.
     


  14. Noir.

    Noir. Senior member

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    hey big A, i've seen you post a lot on MC and you seem like a great guy so i'll go ahead and comment quickly and I'll be more detailed when I'm not in a headspin (today's a very busy day). Expect me to be more involved by late Thursday or Friday.

    First, those changes are impressive as hell, so congratulations. Caloric intake matters less with beginner gains - i'm assuming that's what you had because like I said, that change is amazing (I don't even have a 44 chest and I've been doing this for a while). It evens out the longer you do it.

    all calories are not created equally. TEF for one (energy expenditure for digestion) is different for each of the macros. Different things also assimilate very differently. However, caloric intake DOES have some bearing on weight loss. If you're new or pharma supplemented you can do both because you're introducing a new and very significant change to your body. But even still, if you eat 1,000 calories worth of donuts and 1,000 calories worth of steak or potatos or chocolate - it's far from being the same thing and leading to the same results. I'll throw your #'s in the spreadsheet later and let you know what I come up with.

    Different ranges work for different body parts. I recommend trying them out and finding what works. I would say you'll need slightly more volume in the future less gains will stagnate. Low rep/strength intensive is wonderful for starting out because IMO you need a base level of strength to get any real results.

    What in particular is conflicting and I'll do my best to comment further.

    Sorry everyone, I'm a bit scattered. Case studies, homeworks, and about a trillion deadlines this week.
     


  15. lefty

    lefty Senior member

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    18 fucking pages to get to:

    Set your protein, get your EFAs and use carbs to fill in the rest of your caloric needs based on goal.

    Clap. Clap. Clap.

    lefty
     


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