Artisanal Clothing and accessories discussion (MA+, CCP, Layer-0, Paul Harnden, Taichi Murakami, Bor

[Zamb]

Can you explain a bit more clearly?

The original concept was that each piece would be bespoke, but now it's MTM/normal size graded solely off the original pattern ?

But you can't order it from stores ?

I thought he did a couple of "trunk shows" though

there was one here in NY and another in LA

 

[sinnedk]

But that’s a parka made out of leather no less. I can see why it costs a bit more than normal. Ccp tailoring pieces don’t cost as much.

 

[oulipien]

Some GBS pieces do, according to an SA at darklands a few years ago, anyway. And, yeah, it's a lot of money, but it does seem weird to say that there would be no market for a $6k denim jacket made by someone who's achieved the kind of aura Altieri's managed, made according to an extremely technical process. It's not a market I could ever be a part of, barring something really strange happening, but there are lots of folks out there with lots of money.

 

[skeen7908]

The guy also said : or even really want it even if the price was more accessible.


Which is why what he wrote made no sense

 

[nyarkies]

I don't understand why GBS pieces would cost that much when it's not even bespoke, even if the fabric is locally sourced. Some of the handsewn buttonholes I've seen are shoddy.

What's the definition of an accessible price? If that jacket was priced at 3k Euros do we really see more people buying one? As for sizing, I think he can grade it if he wants to. This doesn't have to be a bespoke or MTO piece. If it doesn't fit your body type, then it doesn't. I would love to wear CCP's fencing jacket again but my arms can't fit in it anymore. Sizing up doesn't work as the rest will end up oversized on my body. Moved on. It's just how it is.

 

[oulipien]

All of the handsewn buttonholes I've seen on GBS pieces have been pretty shoddy, to the extent that I can't take him even a little seriously when he goes on about "extreme handmade" blah blah blah. But that's what the darklands guy said, and I can only assume part of it some extremely luxe fabrics, and part of it is cultic aura.

 

[Mojo1990]

Average pricing for GBS shirts range from 600 to 850 usd. Silk are at the top end nearing 1k.
Outwear pieces likewise depend on fabric composition. Linen or Cotton blends range anywhere from 1k to 2k usd, whereas Wool and Silk blends tend to go for upwards of 3k (at the most 4k for really exceptional one off creations). Trousers tend to be priced in between the two.

So when compared to mainstream luxury brands the pricing is rather comparable. The handmade element and luxury fabrics are definitely a value point. And the guys producing the limited pieces are paid a good wage when compared to other markets.

 

[newp]

It's only a matter of perspective.
I would order a jacket like this for $700 immediately and there are a lot people with income 10 times more than mine. For them $7000 jacked is as easy to buy as $700 one for me.
I do recall expensive GBS shirts or jackets from unbelievably thin wool being mentioned (not by Geoffrey or his team) and pricing included both fabric and another level of work to tailor a piece from it. I haven't seen it in person though.

 

[cpollard]

* there is no pattern that is made that cannot be graded.

i encourage you to visit one of altieri's trunk shows & review the pattern for yourself.

yes, i understand it may be hard to imagine how any jacket pattern that consists of a body block, a sleeve block, etc. could not be graded. the problem is that the vnapersona pattern does not really involve a body block, or a sleeve block. it is not made like a normal pattern, nor is it cut like one, nor is it assembled like one. it has much more in common -- both in design and in assembly -- with the shapes in this video than it does with any other jacket pattern on earth.

here is a recent photo from instagram:



the shape traced on the denim in this image is the pattern for one jacket. and again: it is one piece. looking at a section like this, it is easy to see how certain areas cannot accommodate grading "up" -- in some places, there is just no more fabric to cut because the edges of two pieces already abut each other:

but the nature of the assembly of pieces from this project also mean that their patterns have no leeway to be graded "down." again, this pattern is not symmetrical, and any given area of the pattern does not necessarily correspond to one specific part of the jacket (e.g., a sleeve.) i think, but am not positive myself, that the section above is from left the top of one sleeve, the collar, the bottom of the other sleeve, and the chest pocket on one side of the jacket.

to increase or decrease the circumference of, say, the jacket's bicep might involve areas of the pattern at four opposite corners. likewise, since these pieces fit together like an exact puzzle, sizing "down" one piece of the puzzle might require sizing "up" another, lest a gap be left between the two in the final jacket. sure, some small adjustments can be made to the pattern, and it could even be possibly in theory to "grade" it to a range of sizes, but actually it's much more straightforward -- and indeed the whole point of the project -- that such an effort would be better spent making a new pattern from scratch.

without getting too off-topic, it is worth clarifying that the original aim of the project vnapersona is not to make any one jacket or any one pair of pants. it's much closer to the goal of the research project behind the video i linked above:

Given a 3D model, our algorithm produces plans for a single 2D shape that can be laser cut in few parts from fabric or paper.

altieri hoped to be able to create a system that could produce a one-piece pattern to cover any 3D model (any body part of any specific dimensions) and that could also accommodate any set of preferences (for example, a chest pocket to carry a pistol, kneepads for someone who often works on the floor, etc.) in some sense, the jacket, pants, glove, hat, et al patterns he's been producing are just proofs-of-concept of that system, that is, physical demonstrations that producing something under these constraints IS possible.

 

[skeen7908]

@cpollard


there seems to be plenty of empty space on that fabric
Certainly they could at least be graded smaller (if not larger)

And grading could easily be done proportionately (ie reduce everything by 10%)

CCP has been doing one piece construction for some time

Seems to be that the 3D technology probably doesn't work very well and no one can be bothered taking bespoke measurements?

 

[nyarkies]

CCP's dead end pieces aren't true one-piece constructions. The jeans have a separate waistband. The sleeves on the jackets are separate. That's why it's probably easier to grade them.

 

[Zamb]

Let me repeat, AGAIN.....
there is no pattern that is made that cannot be Graded.
Also we are not taking about a single garment, but several different garments, if there is one garment within the range that is difficult to grade, then should we then assume that all of the garments are difficult to grade?

A pattern like that could easily be graded by a computer
1. you scan the pattern,
2 you put in the coordinates and grade rules
3. you apply them to the points where the garment needs to be graded
4.the system automatically grades the pattern for you.

I understand the need for mystique, mythology and the story of a think so complex its achingly impossible to do what is normally done.......but that i for a certain kind of person

 

[merz]

A pattern like that could easily be graded by a computer
1. you scan the pattern,
2 you put in the coordinates and grade rules
3. you apply them to the points where the garment needs to be graded
4.the system automatically grades the pattern for you.

while there may be some semantic issues with the term grading, the pattern can be parametrically scaled. although it would be anything but easy, and also kind of a side-step of the project's underlying principles. those being that each such piece is to be created in mind and in concert with the wearer. as have been noted above, the pieces thus developed so far have been proof of concept. my hope is that the greater potential of the project is realised at some point because its a whole lot more than a denim suit.

 

[doodledo]

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[fistinyoface]

Anyone still give a **** about this stuff?