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Armed robbery

Discussion in 'Social Life, Food & Drink, Travel' started by NavyStyles, May 3, 2004.

  1. Brian SD

    Brian SD Senior member

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    I guess it's different in other states then. From what I hear, very few people here in San Diego carry a gun.
     
  2. vero_group

    vero_group Senior member

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    In Texas, you can carry a concealed weapon as long as you have a license and are not a felon.

    I *believe* a Federal law allows any non-felon carrying more than $10,000 in cash to carry a concealed handgun across state lines. In a previous life before she met me, my wife used to carry $30,000 to $40,000 in cash with her to buy motorcycles and personal watercraft (Ski-Doos and such) at foreclosure / seized property auctions around the country. She says she carried a handgun with her at all times.

    Nowadays, we live in a gated community in the heart of Dallas with four large iron gates and a 24/7/365 staff of security guards. As far as I know, we don't have any guns in our house, although my wife could very well have some hidden away. Despite childhood hunting trips to which my father dragged me, I've never owned or shot a gun of any type myself.
     
  3. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

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    OC is pretty safe but I have a concealed carry permit and carry at all times regardless, better to be safe, I own around 8-10 firearms, mostly handguns but the target 20 and a dragunov as well.
     
  4. GQgeek

    GQgeek Senior member

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    When I move to the states and buy a home, i'll be buying a gun the same week. Right now I live in a highrise with good security so unless someone pulls a gun on the security guards and makes them open the door to the elevator area, they likely wouldn't be able to get up to my apartment even if they wanted to. Even up here in peaceful canada though, I've had some bad experiences. Last year I was living in a rowhouse apartment right in the center of downtown montreal, just off ste-catherine's st. It was a nice, newly renovated building. Unfortunately, it was a joke to get in to. The front of the building has a plastic box with a keyhole in it so that the mailman can get in to the entrance area and deliver us our mail. Some guy broke the box with a rock, touched two wires together, and the door opened for him. The post office replaced it with a metal box, but still.... I was thankfully awake and watching a movie at 2am. I didn't hear him breaking the plastic box outside, but i heard something in my keyhole. At first i just figured it was a drunk neighbor at the wrong door, but when I heard the knob turn I got up and looked through the peep-hole. Even at first when I thought it was just a drunken neighbor, it's a terrifying feeling when you hear someone trying to open the door to your residence. Without opening the door, I said to the guy standing on the other side, that i was pretty sure he had the wrong door. He said he was looking for someone and insisted they lived in my apartment. I figured he was pretty harmless at first so I gave him a chance before calling the cops. Once it became clear he wasn't leaving and wanted to come in, i told him to get lost or i'd call the cops, at which point he started threatening me and saying he was gonna come back with his friends and beat the shit out of me. I stopped talking to him and called the cops at this point, but he left before they arrived. The whole night I was wondering if he'd come back as he promised to. He actually did, although just to throw something at my window. This could have played out in many different ways, most of the outcomes would have been worse. My parenst also have a house out in the country. I was home alone when I was 18 once and I heard footsteps on the deck. I grabbed a knife and went upstairs to turn on the lights, hopefully scare them away by doign so, and see if I could see anything. When I saw a human's shadow on the deck I immediately called the police (till then it coulda been an animal or something). Thankfully, the guy was easily scared because out where my parents house is, it still takes the cops 20minutes to get there if they respond immediately. Our house is in the middle of 5 acres. Nobody has an excuse for being that far in. Here's another story. I know a guy who came home one day to find a crackhead robbing his house. I can only imagine what woulda happened to his wife or daughters if they were home. Maybe nothing, or maybe the worst; crackheads are among the lowest scum of the earth. Unfortunately for Mr. Crackhead, this guy was an irish mobster that weighed in at about 240 and loved giving beatings. His eyes used to light-up when he was telling stories, he really enjoyed it. When he walked in on this crackhead robbing his house, i swear that it made his day. Instead of calling the cops, he took him down to his basement where he kept him tied-up and gagged for a week. I'll leave it up to your imaginations what he did to the guy during that week. I'll tell you this much, that dude won't be robbing too many houses in the future. My cousins live in a nice house on lake superior in a quiet neighborhood up in northern ontario. They've been burglarized 3 or 4 times i think. Luckily for them, it's always been while they weren't home. Again, I live in canada. It's supposedly nice and safe up here. Just the other day on cnn.com I saw that some kids broke in to an old granny's house to burglarize her. one of them decided to make her undress for him in the bedroom.. He was 11 and she was 75 i think.... Now tell me I don't need a gun for home defense. As far as i'm concerned, if someone steps foot into your house with criminal intent, they're fair game to be shot. Who knows whether they're just trying to steal your silverware or rape and murder your family while you sleep? They have no business being there. You shouldn't have to play fair with them, as they're not playing fair with you. You don't know if they're junkies (who can be quite dangerous), kids looking for a quick and easy score, or serial killers. The point is, they shouldn't be there. Maybe my views seem extreme to some people, but having someone try and break-in to your house and then threaten to come back with other people to beat you is unsettling. I know I would have slept better the following week if I had one of these by my bed. I only wish you could buy assault weapons for home defense in canada [​IMG]
     
  5. Mike

    Mike Senior member

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    (Note: The link on the word "These" led to a H&K 9mm MP5)

    Well, you can't technically buy one of those legally here in The States, either. At least not a fully automatic one. Full auto has been banned since the 1930s although I'm sure that there are ways, both legally and highly illegally to purchase them. Common missconception, especially by the news media, especially in the past few weeks with the expiration of the "assault weapons ban," which only banned weapons with folding or collapsable stocks, a bayonet notch, higher capacity magazines, etc. Plus, do you really need an MP5 for home protection?

    There is nothing inherently evil about firearms, contrary to what Rosie O'Donnell or Martin Sheen would say. They can be used for evil, by a person who wants to do that. Or they can be a hobby, or a sport, or potentially a lifesaver, all if done safely. Safety is the number one priority. If you want to purchase a firearm for personal protection, do so. First, however, take a safety course, learn how to use your gun properly and safely. If you have children in the house, lock it up, or better yet, take them to a safety course where they will learn how to respect firearms and not play with them.

    That being said, I have recently been looking at different firearms, not that I'm in a hurry to get one. I've gone to the range with my uncle many times and its always been an enjoyable hobby. Taurus has a nice new series, the 24/7, in a variety of calibers. You can't go wrong with Glocks. Ruger always makes a pretty quality product too, at least in my experience.
     
  6. Tokyo Slim

    Tokyo Slim Senior member

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    I really like that briefcase MP5... (drools)
     
  7. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Man, this makes me glad that I live in Massachusetts right now. There's an old saying that the more cops there are, the less safe a neighbourhood is. The whole "gated community" thing, and there were a lot of them in SoCal, just gives me the creeps.

    As for the idea of firearms for home protection: the majority of gunshot injuries and deaths occur at home, in accidents/ Furthermore, it's the societal idea that one needs a gun to protect oneself that leads to gun proliferation, including in the criminal element. Remember, gangsters are part of our society too. Violent cultures beget violent criminals.
     
  8. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

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    LA Guy, funny that you said that, I feel much safer here in Orange County than when I was living in Cambridge, I had one attempted mugging and was shot at once (once in Cambridge, once in Boston)

    As for the thing with accidents, I can break down any of my guns and reassemble quickly and am an pretty good shot, and have no kids, so I am not worried about accidents. I also have my quick release gun safe right next to my bed and various other weapons within quick reach.

    Full auto is very overrated, I have one of my weapons modified for three round burst (which is legal in some but not all states) and even that is less accurate than semi-automatic, you don't really need that unless you are fighting against an entire host of assailants, and full auto is extremely inaccurate.
     
  9. Mike

    Mike Senior member

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    Amen, brother. Very responsible, and if something unfortunate should happen, your knowledge and experience with your guns will definatly work to your advantage. One of my greatest fears and pet peeves is someone who buys a gun for the sole fact that it's "cool" or that they are so scared that they feel it's the only way to survive. Granted, some areas are worse than others, but living in fear is not the best way, and it can lead to tragic accidents.

    My neighbor is the stereotypical suburbanite white boy- he drives around in his newer SUV with a monster sound system blaring 50 Cent and Eazy E, yet when he goes into the city to go to clubs he arms his car with all sorts of weapons, legal and illegal (brass knuckles, collapsable batons, switchblades & other knives, and a few illegally purchased pistols). I'm not saying its a rolling arsenal, but its a little much. He is the perfect case for a possible accident, because he's so scared, yet he feels like such a bad ass with his weapons, that he probably won't use his best judgement, and a minor incident could become a very major one fast.

    I just read an article where about innocent bystander got shot at a college party because someone was pissed that their shot glass collection was stolen and confronted someone with a gun about it. The gun went off, only grazed the confronted one and hit the girl bystander in the throat. This happened about a year ago, the girl was a soccer player and her teammates are still dealing with her loss. Did some innocent person have to die over some shot glasses? How many other people have been injured or killed because some dumbass who didn't act safe or was so scared that it impacted their judgement? Its not the guns' fault, it's the stupid motherf**kers who don't have training with their guns and act too hastly.
     
  10. faustian bargain

    faustian bargain Senior member

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    the comment about accidents being the number one cause of injuries/deaths fairly begs for statistical backup. not that that's a huge argument against gun ownership in the first place. idiots will be idiots. it may indeed be an argument in favor of gun safety courses.

    i would rather say, complacent cultures beget violent criminals. the lack of personal responsibility for security creates an environment ripe for 'bad guys' to exploit, since they know that centralized security cannot be all-seeing. it's the "don't get caught" mentality.

    /andrew - packin'.
     
  11. vero_group

    vero_group Senior member

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    I don't really live in a gated community for safety reasons -- I live in one for luxury reasons. Here's the community website: http://www.lakeforestdallas.com/ If I lived in Taxachusetts, I likely wouldn't be able to afford to live in a luxury gated community in the first place -- the gubment would take too much away from my earnings, thus reducing my purchasing power in the marketplace, my freedom of choice, and my overall quality of life.
     
  12. GQgeek

    GQgeek Senior member

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    Aren't there states where you can purchase class 3 weapons if you go to the trouble of getting some sort of license that allows you to and buy them from a dealer that's allowed to sell them?

    This is simply untrue.

    Accidental deaths account for only 2% of gunshot deaths. That's an  acceptable number in my opinion. Over 50% of all households in the U.S. admit to having firearms (Nelson et al, 1987). 866 deaths isn't all that bad when you think about it.  

    It didn't give a break-down of how the injuries occured, whether by accident or some other means. Given the number of firearm homicides, i'm sure there's a lot of crime related injuries in that 200k. I'm also pretty sure most of the accidental ones would have been preventable if the owners had been a bit more responsible. Personally, I think people should be required to take a firearms safety course when they purchase a gun. You'd think most of what they teach is common sense, but lots of ppl are dumb.

    So there really aren't a lot of little kids getting shot cause mommy and daddy leave loaded guns lying around. That leaves intentional shootings, "big kids", and people that should know better. Hey if kids wanna screw around with guns and shoot each other, knowing perfectly well how dangerous they are, call me unsympathetic, but that's natural selection for you.

    I'm not sure i agree. Canada doesn't have nearly as much violent crime as the US. Most people here don't have guns in their homes (or handguns at least). You can't go to gun shows and buy handguns, and i haven't ever heard of people carrying for protection. However, every criminal i've ever met that's wanted a gun, has one. If i really wanted a handgun I could go buy one tomorrow. Criminals get their hands on guns no matter what laws you pass. Even if there was a total ban on all guns, they'd just import them in the same way they import drugs.

    Knowing that criminals can get guns with ease and despite the accidental gunshot statistics, i'd still rather have one cause it means I'm in control if the worst happens. Beyond that it's up to me to keep them locked-down and out the reach of kids.
     
  13. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    Navy, for what it is worth I think that you did the right thing. anybody faced with a shotgun should do what he is told.

    that said, I am sure that you feel like a shmuck, and that that feeling won't go away too fast. but nobody was killed or hurt. what would your life look like if you had pulled out a knife and your girlfriend had been shot and you had kept your wallet and lived through it? and frankly, I'm not sure how happy you would really be if you killed the guys, either.


    my feeling about guns is that they require a large commitment - I spent several years of my life working with guns (long story, but in a life long ago and far away I was a recon soldier) and I don't have one in my house now. I am really not convinced that you are safer with a gun in the house than not. I don't think that anybody I know who has a gun is well enough trained in using them.

    What I do have is a huge canister of tear gas in the bed room, by the front door and in the car, and I chose to live in a very safe area at the cost of several other factors. I would rather make it a very good idea for everybody to get out of my house than kill some silly assed buglar or take the risk that my son will one day choose to show my gun to his friends and I'll come home to find them dead.
     
  14. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Thanks for the common sense. That is actually a very good idea. GQgeek, I hope that your words about natural selection don't come back to bite you when you have kids of your own.
     
  15. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

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    I live in a pretty safe area as well, but would rather be in a situation to deal with a problem in the remote chance it occurred rather than either a) wait for the police, or b) hope an intruder didn't hurt my family.
     
  16. FCS

    FCS Senior member

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  17. GQgeek

    GQgeek Senior member

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    Actually, I'm not trying to act tough. I assume we're talking about my natural selection comment... Frankly, i truely believe what i said. I can agree that it would probably suck for the parents if their kids ended up shooting each other, but really, they shoudl have raised them so be a bit smarter or they should have locked their guns away.

    Let me ask you, do you think natural seleciton doesn't exist in the modern world? Is my comment really that out of place?

    The facts are that kids know guns kill people. Why then would any teen point a gun at someone else and pull the trigger? Remember, we're not talking about pre-teens that really don't know any better. There were only TWO such incidents in the whole of the US in 1998. We're talking about teenage kids that know how guns work, what they're used for and how to pull the trigger.

    Being a kid that spent summers at his gun-happy uncle's house, i can tell you a story. My cousin once dared me to take a pellet gun, stick it to my head and pull the trigger. The gun was unloaded, or so he said, but i still said "fuck that im' not sticking a gun to my head, you idiot." It's this little thing in the back of my head called that's interested in self-preservation that says "what if?" Now we're not talking about pellet guns, we're talking about real guns. Again, why anyone that knows what guns are for would point them at themselves or someone else is beyond me.

    I'm sure i'll take flak for this, but these kids are too stupid to know better. People go easy on them because they're kids and blame the parents for leaving guns lying around, but the fact of the matter is, they're idiots.

    Getting back to natural selection. Like it or not, it's still at work within our population, although in more sublte ways than in the classical examples used in biology textbooks. This is obvious because as humans, the likelihood of any one of us successfully reproducing isn't dependant on whether we can blend in with the foliage present in our habitat so as to avoid detection by predators, or the length of our beaks so that we can more easily get to food that others can't. The factors at work are much more complex and extremely difficult to study directly. I think this guns example works pretty well though.

    This is pure conjecture on my part, but i wouldn't be the least bit surprised if these kids that kill themselves and their friends in these accidents were of below average intelligence. They most definitely lacked that part of your brain that prevents you from doing stupid things like pointing guns at your head and pulling the trigger.

    You know there's actually a good, pulitzer prize winning book, called "Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies." It's not really about guns, but more about tryiing to explain the divergance of human development on different continents. It's a great read, and in one chapter the author goes on to describe what he sees as above average intelligence in a rural tribe in new guinea. He frames his observations within the theory of natural selection, postulating (and i'm simplifying) that because the #1 cause of death for males of a reproducing age was murder, only the smartest and most cunning survived long enough to reproduce and that after hundreds of years of this, the result was as smarter population. This murderous history dated back hundreds of years and so the time period was long enough to actually have a noticeable effect. By contrast, natural selection was less of a factor in London, where population density caused other problems such as the plague, which killed indiscriminantly.

    It's quite a fascinating read. I'd recommend it to anyone with an interest in history. The author is actually an evolutionary biologist and not a historian.
     
  18. FCS

    FCS Senior member

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  19. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Or maybe the "biological" characteristic that is being selected against is the parents' inclination to have guns in the house. BTW, why don't you just use the tear gas suggestion? Seems like it would work just as well.
     
  20. vero_group

    vero_group Senior member

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    Tear gas doesn't make people cry; people make people cry.
     

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