Are you the best dressed person at your job?

[Nigel Scott-Williams]

Possibley but I saw a lot of odd trousers (not suits), skin tight on middle aged men. It is not a good look.

Ah! The problem is not the shape of the trousers but the shape of the men!!

 

[Mirage-]

Literally every menswear shop here in Italy seems to sell those unstructured unlined jackets which are basically cardigans with notch lapels, and have been doing so for at the very least 1 full year, probably much more.

I have 2 fall-winter ones which I mostly use as outerwear in fall, as I find they're too hot to wear indoors in fall, and in winter too hot over most sweaters and too cold in the open chest without one. I was actually thinking of having a tailor add a loop button to close the lapel in order to make it more versatile, like many shawl collar cardigans do.

My main problem with them is that they are always way too short to be actual odd jackets - and please note that I am short already, at 173cm. On a tall person they are probably cropped jackets. While the sleeves are indeed long enough to work as outerwear for me.

 

[ClassicStyle1950]

I would be embarrassed to admit I own a pair of drawstring pants. Uuuggghhh!

 

[smittycl]

I would be embarrassed to admit I own a pair of drawstring pants. Uuuggghhh!

I own three now. Mostly for seashore or around the house wear. Fine for summer!

 

[Mirage-]

Beyond the drawstring, of which I also own a (cheap, but decent) pair in linen-lyocell blend (which fit snug so the drawstring is in fact useless), what I'd most like to understand is the philosophy behind "dress joggers", e.g. https://www.poszetka.com/product-eng-6471-Brown-cotton-jogger-trousers.html?query_id=1.
I think joggers are just ugly, but even discounting that, why on earth try to make them in dress trousers materials- how are such tight pants comfortable in non-stretchy materials such as pure cotton or wool?

 

[dieworkwear]

Beyond the drawstring, of which I also own a (cheap, but decent) pair in linen-lyocell blend (which fit snug so the drawstring is in fact useless), what I'd most like to understand is the philosophy behind "dress joggers", e.g. https://www.poszetka.com/product-eng-6471-Brown-cotton-jogger-trousers.html?query_id=1.
I think joggers are just ugly, but even discounting that, why on earth try to make them in dress trousers materials- how are such tight pants comfortable in non-stretchy materials such as pure cotton or wool?

A lot of these CM outfits are painful because the person clearly wants to dress casually, but they're holding onto CM ideas that don't work in casual outfits. First, the outfits are very internet-y. They're like the tailored version of a furry. Second, the outfits look so forced and uncomfortable, like a perfectly still, stiff image of a person trying to look casual and nonchalant.

It would be better if guys just did CM when they're in tailored clothing and then ditched those ideas completely when dressed casually. It's possible to wear drawstring pants made from dressier wools, but not if you hold onto these CM ideas about how to dress. De Bonne Facture makes drawstring pants from non-jersey materials and the outfits look great.

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I'm sure someone older and more conservative is going to say "that looks terrible." This is fine, but that means you should just stick to a very traditional CM look. That often involves wearing a tailored jacket. CM is often not great outside of a tailored jacket and when guys dry to do dress innovations like this #menswear stuff, it looks worse than the SWD attire they deride.

 

[Genericuser1]

For the most part I used to be then telework/COVID, divorce and 30 extra pounds happened. Still have the best shoes by a long shot but at least 2-3 days a week (as weather permits) I'm wearing a polo and kevlar jeans with knee armor since I'm riding to work.

I gave up wearing sport coats to work as I was the only one in the building who did and I got tired of the comments. I'll just use them for the appropriate occasions now.

 

[smittycl]

A lot of these CM outfits are painful because the person clearly wants to dress casually, but they're holding onto CM ideas that don't work in casual outfits. First, the outfits are very internet-y. They're like the tailored version of a furry. Second, the outfits look so forced and uncomfortable, like a perfectly still, stiff image of a person trying to look casual and nonchalant.

It would be better if guys just did CM when they're in tailored clothing and then ditched those ideas completely when dressed casually. It's possible to wear drawstring pants made from dressier wools, but not if you hold onto these CM ideas about how to dress. De Bonne Facture makes drawstring pants from non-jersey materials and the outfits look great.

I'm sure someone older and more conservative is going to say "that looks terrible." This is fine, but that means you should just stick to a very traditional CM look. That often involves wearing a tailored jacket. CM is often not great outside of a tailored jacket and when guys dry to do dress innovations like this #menswear stuff, it looks worse than the SWD attire they deride.

Very good point. I'm glad @gdl203 started stocking DBF as the stuff really fits and works for me. Decided to try this look from them. Picked up DBF drawstring pants from NMWA (close to the ones pictured) and the chore coat directly from DBF. Kind of a younger man's look but I think I can pull it off. I used to wear at least a sport coat when flying but will try this on vacation next week.

 

[Mirage-]

A lot of these CM outfits are painful because the person clearly wants to dress casually, but they're holding onto CM ideas that don't work in casual outfits. First, the outfits are very internet-y. They're like the tailored version of a furry. Second, the outfits look so forced and uncomfortable, like a perfectly still, stiff image of a person trying to look casual and nonchalant.

It would be better if guys just did CM when they're in tailored clothing and then ditched those ideas completely when dressed casually. It's possible to wear drawstring pants made from dressier wools, but not if you hold onto these CM ideas about how to dress. De Bonne Facture makes drawstring pants from non-jersey materials and the outfits look great.

I'm sure someone older and more conservative is going to say "that looks terrible." This is fine, but that means you should just stick to a very traditional CM look. That often involves wearing a tailored jacket. CM is often not great outside of a tailored jacket and when guys dry to do dress innovations like this #menswear stuff, it looks worse than the SWD attire they deride.

I don't think I am convinced by your idea of this marked divide that you always push, to be honest. I definitely don't view classic menswear as wear-a-tailored-jacket-or-go-home affair. I just think some hybrids like those dress joggers I posted make no logical sense for practical reasons, even though, to me, they still look better than your classic poly-cotton sweatpants.
I always thought joggers are liked because they are comfortable, not because they are nice-looking, so keeping the ugly shape but making them uncomfortable through a non-stretchy material and close cut seems dumb to me: worst of both worlds.

 

[lpast]

For the most part I used to be then telework/COVID, divorce and 30 extra pounds happened. Still have the best shoes by a long shot but at least 2-3 days a week (as weather permits) I'm wearing a polo and kevlar jeans with knee armor since I'm riding to work.

I gave up wearing sport coats to work as I was the only one in the building who did and I got tired of the comments. I'll just use them for the appropriate occasions now.

What were they saying?

 

[dieworkwear]

I don't think I am convinced by your idea of this marked divide that you always push, to be honest. I definitely don't view classic menswear as wear-a-tailored-jacket-or-go-home affair. I just think some hybrids like those dress joggers I posted make no logical sense for practical reasons, even though, to me, they still look better than your classic poly-cotton sweatpants.
I always thought joggers are liked because they are comfortable, not because they are nice-looking, so keeping the ugly shape but making them uncomfortable through a non-stretchy material and close cut seems dumb to me: worst of both worlds.

What's wrong with this? (Take personal preference out of it. Meaning, this is not about whether you or any specific individual would want to personally wear it. But as an aesthetic, what's wrong with these non-jersey pants made with a drawstring waist?)

 

[Mirage-]

I don't really have anything against drawstrings (in fact as I said I own one), except perhaps that side-tabs look slightly cleaner, but I find strings perfectly fine for linen trousers - as long as they are thin rather than bulky. It's the baggy, streetwear-style cut that I cannot stand. And the jogger-like cuff which I never liked in any case.
I suppose you could say that I don't like them *because* they are so far from CM. We''d go back to the above disagreement on whether looks that don't feature a tailored jacket look best if they disregard CM's ideas and principles (your opinion) or not (mine).

 

[smittycl]

Looks a bit too much like martial arts gear.

 

[dieworkwear]

I don't really have anything against drawstrings (in fact as I said I own one), except perhaps that side-tabs look slightly cleaner, but I find strings perfectly fine for linen trousers - as long as they are thin rather than bulky. It's the baggy, streetwear-style cut that I cannot stand. And the jogger-like cuff which I never liked in any case.
I suppose you could say that I don't like them *because* they are so far from CM. We''d go back to the above disagreement on whether looks that don't feature a tailored jacket look best if they disregard CM's ideas and principles (your opinion) or not (mine).

The earlier outfit is by Lemaire, one of my favorite designers. Personally love his work and his silhouettes. I wouldn't call his work "streetwear," but in the way that term is used on this board (CM vs SWD), I suppose it's "streetwear."

The outfits below, hidden behind the spoiler, don't have drawstring pants. But they have a flowy vibe that I think works with drawstring pants. If drawstring pants and elasticated hems are part of a coherent look and design tradition, then I think those details can work. If they're just some gimmick tacked onto a CM outfit, then I think it looks awkward, as the stuff has no design language.

Spoiler

 

[smittycl]

Some nice looks in there except for the jumpsuits.