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Are you a bad tipper?

Discussion in 'Social Life, Food & Drink, Travel' started by Ambulance Chaser, Feb 4, 2005.

  1. NewYorkBuck

    NewYorkBuck Senior member

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    I dont get this. You are upset because you cannot delegate such a simple (and useful) task to someone else. Personally, I like to have control over all decisions that involve my money. (One of many reasons I hate oppressive taxation so much, but thats another story. ) Further, whos standards would you rather apply - yours, or some faceless manager, who has to supervise 10 waiters and 100 tables? Finally, if you call evaluating a waiters perfomance "work", I would love to know what you (dont) do for a living.

    On there threads original note, if the service is acceptable, I tip. If its substandard, its 15 or 10. Only the very poorest gets 0%. One sure way to get 0% from me is to skip me at a crowded bar. You want to serve the blonde first - fine. I just wont subsidize it.
     
  2. android

    android Member

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    I"m a Software Engineer and I'm quite capable of evaluating the performance of restaurant serving staff. I could write a full featured program to do so if I chose. I understand that this is the current system, but the fact of the matter is IT'S NOT MY JOB.

    As an aside, I'm being asked to do more and more things on behalf of businesses that aren't my job such as ring up my own goods and all sort of other "self service" tasks. I make it a point to take my business elsewhere or to use the full service line even if there are a few people waiting.

    My desire is that restaurants would operate as in Europe. You pay the price on the menu and the staff is adequately compensated by salary or hourly wages. If a waiter or waitress failed to provide satisfactory service on a regular basis, I'm sure enough diners would complain and he or she would be sacked.

    As to standards, I am sure that most restaurant managers know what is good service with respect to their establishment and I would be more than willing to defer that responsibility to them. Bear in mind, that if the service is consistently poor, I can just go somewhere else. That alone will keep quality of service at a reasonable level.
     
  3. Horace

    Horace Senior member

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    I agree with this. Furthermore, it's an entirely different culture over here (USA), isn't it. In France or Italy, for instance, a waiter is a respected occupation that pays a wage that can support a family.
     
  4. Horace

    Horace Senior member

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    You assume that those who have money or "earn it" and "achieve financial success" do it solely on their own merits. Conversely, those who hold your view also (and this is the nasty side of a meritocracy) believe that those who haven't any money, haven't any because they haven't "worked hard". So it's the fault of the poor that they are poor.
    Your argument would seem to allow (and even to argue that it's right) that the poor are poor and the rich are rich. It's a very pernicious middle-class, pull 'em up by their bootstraps argument. The idea that some stock-jobber on Wall Street (and I used to be one of them) or some guy who owns a chain of dry cleaners or pizza parlors is more deserving of material wealth than a woman on welfare who is raising four children, a janitor cleaning a building, a police officer, or anyone else is not something I agree with.

    I don't know, why don't you read your last full sentence that I cited. Do I have to parse out the convolluted and contradictory statement (and it's suppositions) for you, or can you figure it out on your own?

    I don't like talking about money, I get a creepy feeling of bad taste: but I'll be blunt: I grew up with a lot of money. I also made (and make) a fair amount of my own. And yet, I was told as a young man, and I still believe it today: when you see a street person shuffling down the sidewalk, never think you are better than he is. Know that, there but for the grace of God go I. The idea that you think it's okay that some people aren't entitled to a living wage is beyond the pale. It's so wrong I don't know what to say. It's also a fairly common thought in Bush's America though, isn't it? In fact, it's not even Bush, as I'd wager it's a common American sentiment that transcends a specific party and a specific time. But it's heartless and it's disgusting. Your argument on the whole has been predicated on many pernicious fallacies. One of them is that one person's success is achieved at the expense of others. And you are actually right that this is the way it works. But you are wrong to think it necessary or good.
     
  5. hopkins_student

    hopkins_student Senior member

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    North Carolina
    In response to your first statement that is now in bold font: It is the basis of capitalist society that those who take risks, and I do not see how you can argue that at least the pizza or dry cleaning chain owners do not take risks, deserve more. They are paid a premium for assuming risk. What would you propose would entice someone to assume the risk involved in entrepreneurship if there were not the opportunity for greater reward at the end? In response to your second bold statement: When did I ever suggest that someone without money has less individual worth than someone with? If I ever suggested that I apologize because it is certainly not something I believe. For the first three quarters of my life my family barely scraped by (not barely scraping by with Lexuses instead of Mercedes, but truly barely scraping by), and I would not suggest that my intrinsic value has increased. In fact, I have found that it is often those from more modest circumstances that have the greatest values and character. Intrinsic personal value has no relation whatsoever to financial entitlement. If someone could convince me that a living wage would not result in significantly increased unemployment then I would not be terribly opposed to the idea. Unfortunately it doesn't seem that there is any way around it. Do you think that the benefit to people that increase their wages and maintain their employment is greater than the loss of people who lose their jobs as the result of an economy that cannot employ them? It isn't just my personal opinion that some must lose for others to gain, in the case of (dramatically) increasing minimum wages it is an economic fact.
     
  6. ernest

    ernest Senior member

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    No tip = restaurants are too expensive
     
  7. esquire.

    esquire. Senior member

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    Random thoughts:

    A restaurant depends on a certain turnover. If you're taking up space at the table, then this prevents another customer in that spot. If this is a fine restaurant where it is customary to dawdle and linger after dinner, then the tip should also be higher to reflect this.

    People are miscalculating how much the waiter keeps from the tip. The waiter also shares part of it with the busboy and others.

    Tokyo Slim:
    Keep on rocking the free world. Just wondering, why not simply work more hours at Home Depot instead of delivering pizzas? And, if you don't mind, what did you do in high school that's hurting your current job opurtunities. Whatever you did was when you were still a minor, so I don't understand the problem.

    Nightowl:
    How would a salesman feel if I were to give a tip for a well done job. I'm afraid it might appear condescending. And, there's the problem of giving it. How would you like it to be handled if a customer wanted to show you his appreciation?

    Moral dilema:
    My mother goes out to lunch with her office colleagues. However, they don't leave a tip so my mother did. Does everybody think this was proper, where she covered for everybody else's tip as well. I understand why she did this, but I think it set up a bad precedent where nobody will ever leave a tip because they will expect her to cover it.

    And, I'm dissappointed nobody answered J's question about what to tip at a place like soup plantation where you are responsible for getting your own food, but yet there's a busboy who cleans away the dishes. Should the tip therefore be less than the standard 15%, more like 10%.
     
  8. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    greater chicago
    this reminds me of a funny thing that happened to me last year. I met one of my wife's family members, who I had only seen our wedding. He is about 65, the husband of my wife's grandfather's niece - that is considered close family in the colombian jewish comunity. nice enough guy, relativly successful, very comfortable.

    anyway, when we met, he shook my hand and left me a "tip" - $60 folded up in his hand the same way I might tip a maitre d. he said something like "please get something for your son from me". I was pretty austonded, a little offended but very amused. I have never been "tipped" before.
     
  9. lawyermarkk

    lawyermarkk New Member

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    Beverly Hills
    yes, i probably am. i just don't like servers. i mean, seriously, they're really entittled and just expecting to get some money from me by dropping off some rolls, filling up my soda, and so forth. they ond't do anything. maybe i'm a snob. i don't know. but most of them just bug. although, last night, i felt bad at a bbq joint leaving a pretty small tip. next time i go back, i'll leave a more generous one.
     
  10. Fabienne

    Fabienne Senior member

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    I've had similar experiences in my family in France, and it's usually older family members. You typically are expected to protest, which makes the person insist and feel even better about winning the "argument". [​IMG]
     
  11. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Horace, thank you for expressing this opinion. I would have, but had not desire to be dismissed as a (poor and thus) bitter academic. Your post articulated more succinctly and eloquently my sentiments than I could have. Maybe I will take you up on that offer to visit the Andover Shop with you after all. I'd like to extend the same invitation to us to visit Gary Drinkwater, just past Porter Square, for coffee and a chat. As someone who has a healthy regard for traditional American dress, I think that you will enjoy his take on it.
     
  12. j

    j Senior member Admin

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    If they were good people, it would make them feel bad about not leaving a tip. If they do it again, that should be the last time she goes out with them, if feasible. I don't have office 'colleagues' so I don't know what it would be like really, but if it were my friends I would call them on it politely. As to the cafeteria with bus service, I sometimes leave a dollar on the table, but it is always awkward. Some places, you don't want to leave money lying around, so it seems no tip is necessary. It's just a ball of confusion. And to the living wage argument, there are good economic reasons why every job should not (cannot) pay a 'living wage'. Ideally, it would work out that way. But there is not enough wealth without serious socialistic restructuring to make it possible. There are people who can live just fine and work a non-living-wage job. These are kids still under their parents' care and e.g. wives of a 'sole breadwinner' type husband (or husbands of wives, whatever). Paying these jobs less than a living wage is not unfair if society works the way it is supposed to, i.e. in Leave it to Beaver. Slight sarcasm, but you get what I mean. Just as crappy clothes in childhood build character in children, crappy conditions with the promise of better life promote innovation in society.
     
  13. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

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    I won't tip at a place like Soup Plantation or a buffet in general unless I get exceptional service or have special requests. Typically I will leave a few dollars at a place with drink service but where you get your own food.
     
  14. esquire.

    esquire. Senior member

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    Like J, I end up tipping a dollar at places like Soup Plantation. It probably is slightly less than 10%. I figure if somebody is filling your drink and taking away your drinks, then they are doing something similar to a real waiter, and should be tipped for that. Not as much as what a real waiter does, so I don't tip as much as I would in a real restaurant.

    When I was little and even more immature, I would try to talk my parents out of leaving a generous tip. I'm glad they didn't listen to me. I'm still a cheap bastard- I always just get water. But, leaving a tip is so engrained, I don't even think much about it anymore. If they do a really poor job, then I'm not going to give them the 15%. But, they'd have to do something really bad like totally ignoring me or getting the order wrong. Something like not getting my water refilled right away isn't that big of a deal to me. I'm low maintenance, and understand that these waiters are busy with other customers.

    How much would you tip somebody like nightowl if he went out of his way to do an exceptional job. I'm afraid a dollar tip would be condescending, and so it might be better not to give one. But, then, I don't want to give a 5 dollar tip for something that its not expected either.
     

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