Are non-top 100 liberal arts degrees worthless in the eyes of employers?

[coachvu]

Originally Posted by Concordia

That is exactly what my mother did. She wanted to study history and wanted to go to medical school. It required a summer at Harvard to catch up on one or two science classes, but it wasn't impossible.

This is so common as to almost be the norm anymore. A significant number of my classmates in med school have non-science degrees, and many of them didn't need summer courses or post-bac work to meet the pre-med requirements. It's really not that difficult to fit all the courses in as an undergraduate.

 

[Merckx]

Originally Posted by Coho

A lot of the guys who grew up in the ghettos join the US military.

This is America's way of getting back at Muslims, I think. They send us their Jihadists with strapped bombs. We send them guys from broken homes with M-16s.

I was actually referring to truck drivers who bring product to your store, railway people who do the same. People who work in the restaurant industry, people who work in the service industry. Carpenters, electricians, plumbers, those who work in construction. People who build our highways. Bus drivers, air traffic controllers. Cattlemen and dairymen. Farmers and ranchers, salespeople. Mechanics who fix our vehicles, real estate agents who sell our homes, insurance agents who insure our belongings. Policemen and firemen, EMS, people who work in the healthcare industry. The list goes on.

 

[Piobaire]

Growing up, I had two good friends that attended the same university and they both got a BA in history. One went on to grad school, eventually getting his PhD in history and now teaches history. He went through about 15 years of rather lean times but now makes a wage that seems to satisfy him and his family.

The other guy got his BA in history, dropped off the face of the planet for a few years, and last I heard, works in a bakery. He got the job because he moved in with the owner's daughter.

Make of that what you will.

I know many people with liberal arts undergrads that became quite successful. I do not know any that did it on an undergrad in liberal arts alone.

 

[redgrail]

I just wanted to clarify that when I said "your ilk", I meant pompous asses like OP and not all engineers. In addition to those people, I know plenty of decent, literate engineers who have no pretentions regarding their career path.

 

[whacked]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

I know many people with liberal arts undergrads that became quite successful. I do not know any that did it on an undergrad in liberal arts alone.
I am not quite sure to interpret this statement.

If it means what I think it means, then shouldn't the same apply to engineer/pre-med degree earners as well?

Or did you infer that the successful LAC alumni you know all went through graduate/medical/business school?

 

[Connemara]

I think people are overstating the correlation between a LA degree and ****** job prospects. Anecdotally speaking, LA majors seem to do pretty well in the world. I know someone who graduated with a BA in English and is now a well-paid (~$125K) bank manager, a consultant who was making six digits on his history degree prior to getting an MBA (not sure what he's making now), etc.

One profession that is overflowing with LA majors is lobbying/gov't relations. It's probably the result of the "classic" career route for lobbyists: slave to a Congressman/Senator, slave to a committee/subcommittee, on and on. To me, it seems that there's not much of a need to attend graduate school if you've already made crucial connections and obtained real-world knowledge of the way D.C. works.

 

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by whacked

I am not quite sure to interpret this statement.

If it means what I think it means, then shouldn't the same apply to engineer/pre-med degree earners as well?

Or did you infer that the successful LAC alumni you know all went through graduate/medical/business school?

They all went further.

And an engineering undergrad is not equivalent to pre-med however. You can become a PE with just your undergrad and it is still basically a "terminal degree". Hell, in some areas of engineering you can become an EIT just based on experience, not even an undergrad.

 

[Augusto86]

I think we can all agree that Engineering/Science majors, as a class, view themselves as harder working (prolly justified, @ most schools), and more important than Lib Arts folks, and that Lib Arts folks tend to cultivate chip-on-shoulder syndrome. Obviously, there are exceptions. THat's the way it tends to fall out, though.

 

[NoVaguy]

Originally Posted by dopey

They run companies that employ engineers.

sometimes. they could be at HR, could be in marketing, could be stuck answering the phones at companies that employ engineers. or sales.

anyway, at the company I worked for, in between government stints, our CEO had an EE background.

 

[NoVaguy]

Originally Posted by Augusto86

I think we can all agree that Engineering/Science majors, as a class, view themselves as harder working (prolly justified, @ most schools), and more important than Lib Arts folks, and that Lib Arts folks tend to cultivate chip-on-shoulder syndrome. Obviously, there are exceptions. THat's the way it tends to fall out, though.

yeah. at my school, you needed about 40 credits to get an engineering degree, but only about 32 to get a liberal arts degree. it averaged out at about 1 extra class a semester, and the kind that involve non-stop lab crap and homework/problem assignments. (1 credit equaled roughly 3 credit hours at a typical school)

there was an interesting article somewhere about how all of this was pointless in terms of creating engineers for the private sector - but it did have some point for academia.

 

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Connemara

I think people are overstating the correlation between a LA degree and ****** job prospects. Anecdotally speaking, LA majors seem to do pretty well in the world. I know someone who graduated with a BA in English and is now a well-paid (~$125K) bank manager, a consultant who was making six digits on his history degree prior to getting an MBA (not sure what he's making now), etc. One profession that is overflowing with LA majors is lobbying/gov't relations. It's probably the result of the "classic" career route for lobbyists: slave to a Congressman/Senator, slave to a committee/subcommittee, on and on. To me, it seems that there's not much of a need to attend graduate school if you've already made crucial connections and obtained real-world knowledge of the way D.C. works.
of course, being a liberal arts student who has never had a job may color your impression somewhat

There are lots of 'could be' answers in the thread above, and I guess that is reasonable given how broad and general the topic is....in addressing the 'could be', I would err on the side of 'ya, but probably isnt'. It's like when a thread about body building involves women, and people point out the chick who can like benchpress a car to prove that 'women can be as strong as men'....a car lifting chick is the exception not the rule and in dealing with generalities, men remain physically the stronger gender. Same applies...sure a poli sci student could transfer into medicine...but for the most part, he probably wont, and the science kid will have a leg up in med school once he gets there. Personally - and I guess my bias has been revealed in my few posts throughout this thread - I will address as an employer the question raised by the OP. BTW for anyone who doesnt know, I run a public relations company, and since my field has come up in several posts above as somewhere that liberal arts kids could wind up, I will address it in that context. I wouldnt bother inteviewing a grad from a course that isnt directly related to what I will have the kid doing. Very simple. If I have a stack of 30 CVs in front of me, I would look at any business degree CV longer than basically anything out of the humanities or social sciences. I would look at any marketing kid longer. Any kid who has majored in languages that may be able to help me with a very international client base. The PhD in Philosophy is a step down to me from a bachelors in accounting.

 

[awcollin]

As a further example for those interested, I graduated from a small liberal arts college where the goal is to teach students to "think critically." Of the ten pledge brothers I graduated with, there are 3 lawyers, 3 salesmen, 2 financial analysts, 1 teacher, and 1 bartender. I doubt the distribution is much different than that of any other school, except for the lack of engineers, etc.

 

[skalogre]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

They all went further. And an engineering undergrad is not equivalent to pre-med however. You can become a PE with just your undergrad and it is still basically a "terminal degree". Hell, in some areas of engineering you can become an EIT just based on experience, not even an undergrad.
PE is more complicated than that. Depending on where you work, without a PE you cannot even call yourself an engineer; there are also requisite minimum continuing education credits you must acquire on a continuing basis. The PE examination is a tough mofo, let me tell you. Due to what courses I had taken I would have found it quite difficult to get that. Undergraduate B.Sc. Eng. (or B.A.E. such as mine [#1]) are not terminal. M.Sc. and Ph.D. in various engineering disciplines are faaaar from uncommon and makes it easier to climb up the corporate ladder. The biggest difference between Pre-med and engineering work in general is competition. You'll find that in many cases no matter how much you memorise and study, the physics and mathematics and core subjects in undergrad engineering degree requirements are stupefyingly difficult to grasp. But you don't get the immense competition for entry like in medical schools, as many more people would rather go to medical school and have a much higher probability to make a pile of money afterwards, unlike most engineering professions. I can think of at least a half dozen courses that I was HAPPY to get by with a C and not due to being unable to remember things but merely getting my head around the concepts and their application

. As for Liberal Arts, I will agree that it is not really a base requirement for a profession, outside of teaching most likely. From there on it is up to you on how you spin to the prospective employer your skils and how your BA in LA will be an asset... Note [#1]: B.A.E. => long story

 

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by skalogre

PE is more complicated than that. Depending on where you work, without a PE you cannot even call yourself an engineer;

I have to disagree right there. Term 1, Day 1, Class 1, you guys are already calling yourself engineers

Originally Posted by skalogre

The PE examination is a tough mofo, let me tell you. Due to what courses I had taken I would have found it quite difficult to get that.

I am not going to argue that. It took my wife three shots. I understand the unpredictable nature of the exam.

Originally Posted by skalogre

Undergraduate B.Sc. (or B.A. such as mine) are not terminal. M.Sc. and Ph.D. in various engineering disciplines are faaaar from uncommon and makes it easier to climb up the corporate ladder.

The mere existence of higher degrees in the field does not mean the degree is not terminal. A terminal degree means you can practice in the field. An MD is terminal, but you can go on to become a board certified so and so, etc. An RN is terminal, but you can go on to get a BSN, MSN, or PhD, be a nurse prac, etc., but a BSN lets you practice as an RN.

Pre-med is not terminal, it qualifies you to do nothing outside of go to more school. No one gets a job as a pre-med graduate.

Originally Posted by skalogre

The biggest difference between Pre-med and engineering work in general is competition.

No, the major difference you can find a job with your undergrad in engineering. You can become a PE with an undergrad in engineering, you cannot become a doctor with a pre-med degree.

 

[skalogre]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

I have to disagree right there. Term 1, Day 1, Class 1, you guys are already calling yourself engineers

It's a big ugly carrot, frankly; steel ring and all (I have lost mine several times so far

).
Certain states in the USA have licensure deals where only a PE with certain criteria may do certain types of work and be called an Engineer.
I know that in Canada it is a requirement, on the other hand. I believe the UK is the same way.

Originally Posted by Piobaire

I am not going to argue that. It took my wife three shots. I understand the unpredictable nature of the exam.



The mere existence of higher degrees in the field does not mean the degree is not terminal. A terminal degree means you can practice in the field. An MD is terminal, but you can go on to become a board certified so and so, etc. An RN is terminal, but you can go on to get a BSN, MSN, or PhD, be a nurse prac, etc., but a BSN lets you practice as an RN.

Pre-med is not terminal, it qualifies you to do nothing outside of go to more school. No one gets a job as a pre-med graduate.



No, the major difference you can find a job with your undergrad in engineering. You can become a PE with an undergrad in engineering, you cannot become a doctor with a pre-med degree.

Oh, I dont' dispute that. Premed is merely prep work for a degree in medicine. But if you are a PE with only a B.Sc. you do find obstacles quite often, especially once you decide to go up to something like project management or in to research, whether in academia or in the private sector.
It all depends on how far you want to go (and whether you can take the brain abuse).
I am sticking with my undergrad for a while; tried to go back for a M.Sc. in Systems Engineering (now THAT is a flexible field, let me tell you) but I didn't have the will to slog through all that advanced mathematics coursework (at least for the time being).