Are Neckties Going To Go The Way Of Bowties?

[FlyingMonkey]

I prefer the tie.

Completely the opposite for me. I prefer this particular collar without the tie. The collar is so large, it dwarfs the tie knot, whereas it works open-necked, when the collar seems to be more in place.

 

[UrbanComposition]

These shirts are wonderful in that they look good with or without a tie. You can have them with longer or shorter collar points, with or without buttons, in whatever fabric they have in stock.

 

[物の哀れ]

Some more suit sans tie fits that I like:

 

[johng70]

Some more suit sans tie fits that I like:

I like the seersucker look but most of these I don't really care for. A suit without socks just looks awful to me. And the shirt that's a combo between a polo and oxford. But it's just my opinion. I still prefer a world of variety where people aren't all cookie-cutter - look at a photo from the 1930s and everyone is dressed exactly the same. That's boring. I think part of the issue for older people is we grew up seeing a suit and tie - so seeing the same style suit being worn without tie (or without socks) just looks completely alien. But, for someone that doesn't have any background seeing suits/ties or wearing them it's not as much an issue. All in all I'd rather have variety in men's style even if I personally don't like certain looks.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

All the ones with turtlenecks are great: SB fine; DB excellent. I still find some of those who've got extra shirt buttons undone look like they are really trying too hard for the sprezzatura and end up saying 'look, I really, really, really didn't just take my tie off when I left the office, it's meant to look like this.' If you are going to do this, do what Mr Seersucker does, and wear a bandana or something: he looks like he means it. As for the polo + suit look, this often just makes me laugh, and not just because I hate polos: quite frankly, the bald dude with the teal suit looks like he's wearing his pajamas underneath; he'd be better off with a T-shirt. Personally, I'd go for a popover over a polo every time.

 

[mak1277]

SELLING LOW: CORPORATE DRESSING DOWN — The Contender

There was a very upsetting article in the Times about Wall Streeters returning to work. Gone are suits. In are pressed chinos, zipped vests, and worse, sneakers.

thecontender.co

 

[dieworkwear]

I'm surprised Coggins takes such an old-school view while at the same time endorsing companies such as Sid Mashburn, Drake's, and J. Mueser, who are all very forward-facing companies.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

I'm surprised Coggins takes such an old-school view while at the same time endorsing companies such as Sid Mashburn, Drake's, and J. Mueser, who are all very forward-facing companies.

What's old school about it? He's got it right, really. He's arguing against the CM casual thing, and the Midtown uniform, both of which you've also argued against. Don't try to wear shirts that designed for ties without ties. Don't wear pressed chinos. Don't wear fleece vests. There are some things I disagree with him on (like sneakers), but in general he's arguing for coherence while dressing down - which for most people is what they need to hear, and it will help. And the stores he mentions are pushing exactly that.

 

[dieworkwear]

What's old school about it? He's got it right, really. He's arguing against the CM casual thing, and the Midtown uniform, both of which you've also argued against. Don't try to wear shirts that designed for ties without ties. Don't wear pressed chinos. Don't wear fleece vests. There are some things I disagree with him on (like sneakers), but in general he's arguing for coherence while dressing down - which for most people is what they need to hear, and it will help. And the stores he mentions are pushing exactly that.

So the big change here is to wear chinos, but not chinos with a crease, and to have a button-down collar instead of a spread collar? I agree those choices are better, but it still feels like vaguely the same look.

 

[mak1277]

So the big change here is to wear chinos, but not chinos with a crease, and to have a button-down collar instead of a spread collar? I agree those choices are better, but it still feels like vaguely the same look.

so what do you disagree with in his take?

if you eliminate jeans from the discussion, what would you do differently in terms of something to wear to work? The look is the look because there just aren’t that many realistic options.

 

[dieworkwear]

so what do you disagree with in his take?

if you eliminate jeans from the discussion, what would you do differently in terms of something to wear to work? The look is the look because there just aren’t that many realistic options.

I agree, it's not a good situation. If you insist on blending in, it's basically some version of that look. I agree there are better and worse ways to do that look, but the look itself is not very inspiring.

I recently interviewed two people who work in business casual environments. One wears the most insane Kapital, Bode, Needles types outfits. The other wears sport coats with jeans. I prefer those solutions, but they will make you stand out more.

 

[mak1277]

I agree, it's not a good situation. If you insist on blending in, it's basically some version of that look. I agree there are better and worse ways to do that look, but the look itself is not very inspiring.

I recently interviewed two people who work in business casual environments. One wears the most insane Kapital, Bode, Needles types outfits. The other wears sport coats with jeans. I prefer those solutions, but they will make you stand out more.

Jeans aren’t considered appropriate for business casual at any employer I’ve ever had. Only on “jeans Friday”. I don’t mind this, because I probably wouldn’t wear jeans to work under any circumstances.

I just think you’re generally stuck being boring unless you’re willing to wear a sport coat and stick out. Nobody even wears sweaters to my office in colder months.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

sport coats with jeans

This is just the CM idea of being a bit naughty.

 

[物の哀れ]

I am warming to the neckerchief.

 

[dieworkwear]

This is just the CM idea of being a bit naughty.

It's not supposed to be naughty? Jeans plus a sport coat isn't meant to be subversive, but rather normie. It's a way to dress down a tailored jacket in a business casual environment.

I think @mossrockss dresses really well and many of his outfits would work in a business casual environment. If someone doesn't like wearing jeans, they can wear chinos or tailored trousers. But the point of the outfit is the tailored jacket. I prefer this:

Over this:

Coggins' point is that you can dress down even further. I guess I agree? But chinos are chinos; a button-up shirt is still a button-up shirt. I think you're fine with his outfit prescription, but it doesn't feel that far from the outfits outlined in that NYT article. The distinguishing point is ... his recommendation of a chore coat. Which is a trendy item (I'm fine with trendy items). Just saying that switching from a spread collar shirt to a button-down shirt, sneakers to loafers, creased chinos to non-creased chinos is a level of fine-tuning that's going to make a minimal impact. IMO, the person would be better off either just wearing a sport coat or dressing casually (like, actually casually and not this smart-casual stuff).