Are Neckties Going To Go The Way Of Bowties?

[mak1277]

Mr. Mowry achieves a museum grade Harvard art curator look, and we would expect no less.

The Sub brings the swagger to SWD, but I would tend to agree with your friend that the 1016 might be a better match for you:

-Given the investment, I would value a model that could be used broadly, across menswear categories. The Explorer bridges SWD and CM better.

-4mm make a big difference. At 6’, 175, with a 7.375 wrist, a 40 mm sports watch is the max that I think gives a balanced look on my wrist.

-The Sub is such a visible, recognizable, and emotionally charged, cultural artifact that sometimes it can seem that it is wearing the man, rather than the other way around. More realistically, it sometimes draws so much attention that it can distract attention from the rest of the outfit. The 1016 blends in, it is a better ensemble player, IMO.

While I don’t disagree with any of this, I will say that it’s a big mistake to buy either one without trying them both on first. Until you see a watch on your own wrist you can’t have a full opinion of it.

 

[UrbanComposition]

Please explain how a Sub is “emotionally charged.” I honestly can’t see how this is possible.

 

[DapperPhilly]

While I don’t disagree with any of this, I will say that it’s a big mistake to buy either one without trying them both on first. Until you see a watch on your own wrist you can’t have a full opinion of it.

I agree. Try them on first. I owned a sub two tone gold/blue years ago. I sold it and bought an all stainless sub w/o date.
The two tone sub kinda just screamed for attention which I didn't want. The two tone is no doubt a beautiful watch just not for me.
I enjoyed wearing the plain ol stainless for a couple decades. Now I don't wear a watch.

 

[dieworkwear]

Please explain how a Sub is “emotionally charged.” I honestly can’t see how this is possible.

I think the watch is very associated with a certain kind of flashy, slightly aggressive male personality, so some people dislike it because of that association. Sort of like finance bros. It seems to draw a lot of arguments online, even moreso than other menswear topics. "Are Subs overpriced?" "Are they worth $10k?" "It's just a steel watch." "So sick of seeing Subs." "It's not even a complicated movement" etc etc etc.

 

[DapperPhilly]

I think the watch is very associated with a certain kind of flashy, slightly aggressive male personality, so some people dislike it because of that association. Sort of like finance bros. It seems to draw a lot of arguments online, even moreso than other menswear topics. "Are Subs overpriced?" "Are they worth $10k?" "It's just a steel watch." "So sick of seeing Subs." "It's not even a complicated movement" etc etc etc.

I should give a couple caveats. When I owned my two submariners I was an avid diver so it suited my lifestyle.
I bought the two tone for $3500 and the stainless for $1400. That was in the early 80's.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

If it was they certainly achieved it.

the dude on the left had the label still basted on the sleeve. Something tells me they didn’t dress themselves.

 

[dieworkwear]

I only dive into the DMs

(StyFo DMs and only to ask for sizing advice)

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I should give a couple caveats. When I owned my two submariners I was an avid diver so it suited my lifestyle.
I bought the two tone for $3500 and the stainless for $1400. That was in the early 80's.

you don’t need to explain anything to him.

no one needs to explain the rationale for why they buy something.

I swear no other brand seems to draw so much psychoanalysis of it’s owners quite like Rolex.

How about this bit of psychoanalysis: guys who think Rolex is flashy and associated with “finance bros” don’t have the balls to wear Rolex. They’re milktoast dandies who feel too intimidated.

 

[smittycl]

I’ve had a stainless steel Sub for over 20 years now. It’s timeless and an actual tool watch.
Thing is indestructible. Diving, snorkeling, traveling, at work with a suit. Best thing I ever bought.

Besides, I was doomed as a little kid watching Connery sport one in Goldfinger.

I’ve always found, however, the gold and two-tone Rolexes to be overly flashy. Much prefer the stainless Sub, Explorer, Day-Date. The older Air Kings are kinda cool too.

 

[UrbanComposition]

I suppose I can understand the rationale, but it smacks too much of “do you even dive, bro?” It’s just a watch. I like the BB28 because I can take it swimming and turn the bezel as a makeshift countdown timer.

 

[smittycl]

A really, really cool watch.

 

[TheChihuahua]

Over the past year, as this discussion has really heated up, I try to take notice of whether people are wearing suits and ties and such on tv and movies

it seems almost every show/series I watch has at least some characters in suits and ties. Movies as well. It’s actually rare not to see it.

the roles you see the characters wearing suits and ties: government employees, law enforcement, professional attire, formal engagements, and the occasional character who just has it as part of their style, whether they are a social figure or somebody who may do so in a less showy form of attention to detail. (From a Tony stark type character to older gentleman in a far less flashy but well put together manner)
with respect to professional attire, it appears to be less common in that middle management/office space type role than a more respectable look of a well to do professional.

not sure if others have had the same impression/observation

 

[Thin White Duke]

I think the watch is very associated with a certain kind of flashy, slightly aggressive male personality, so some people dislike it because of that association. Sort of like finance bros. It seems to draw a lot of arguments online, even moreso than other menswear topics. "Are Subs overpriced?" "Are they worth $10k?" "It's just a steel watch." "So sick of seeing Subs." "It's not even a complicated movement" etc etc etc.

Well I’ll counter that with ...
I’m sick to death of everyone wanking off over Explorers. One of the most dull and boring looking watches on the market, certainly among the Rolex stable. So many more attractive watches out there in that price range. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder of course but I’m sick to death of them being hailed on here as if they’re some kind of revelation. Boring and dull.

(How’d I do?)

 

[TheChihuahua]

Is it too simplistic to think that it's the work environment itself that helped lead to that? I work in a pretty formal field (government lawyer) and most of us appear in court in conservative attire, including ties, everyday.* But I'd also guess that about 75% of ties come off once we're back in our offices, leaving us with a formal suit and no tie. I've never heard anyone say someone looked bad just because they weren't wearing a tie, and most people want them off as quickly as possible. It seems like the "if it's good enough for work" feeling probably extends to out of work as well.

Even within the office, though, there seems to be something of a generational divide. Very few people wear a suit with a tie everyday unless they're in court, though there's always a tie nearby. On any day but Friday, dark chinos and a button up are pretty popular with younger lawyers, and older lawyers will usually add a blazer. The older lawyers often stick to that on casual Fridays too, whereas younger lawyers might go down to jeans, leather sneakers, and a polo. That said, a lot of younger lawyers are more formal out of work because, well, we have the suit and nice shoes anyway and if we want to dress up a bit we might wear it, but the tie can stay because we're not going to court (so to speak.)

*Conservative pretty much meaning a suit and a tie. Many of us stick to dark colors and grey suits, if only to avoid buying "trial suits" and "everyday suits." But a lot of suits I think would be considered casual here can be court appropriate, too, depending on which court one's going to and why. Jury trials and appellate court arguments are very formal, status check in lower courts are more flexible. Also, the pandemic and remote appearances have tweaked the norms a bit. ETA: Also, Vegas is largely "west coast," and west coast conservative and east coast conservative can be very different.

why do you think the tie comes off once people get back to the office?

I used to do it this way, but rather because off the rack shirt collars are so tight compared to the body and it’s uncomfortable. Simple as that. If you buy a shirt that has a collar that is comfortable, the body is so wide it looks like a parachute/jump suit.

I have my shirts custom done and have collars made a touch big so they are comfortable. Now I never think of taking the tie off mid day. Why would I? More of a pain ********** to put it back in when I have to go out, or if a client is in the office and I want to look proper.

but most people I know who take the tie off as you describe do so simply because shirt makers haven’t figured out that a looser collar is more comfortable.

note: I’m not talking loose where it is noticeable or sloppy. Just to a point where it is perfectly comfortable keeping it buttoned you all day.

note 2: I’m also of the belief that suit sans tie is totally fine. But at the same time, I do think the suit often looks better with a tie.

 

[VegasRebel]

why do you think the tie comes off once people get back to the office?

I used to do it this way, but rather because off the rack shirt collars are so tight compared to the body and it’s uncomfortable. Simple as that.

Yeah, that seems right. I hear the usual comments about a tie being a noose, etc., but ties are so adjustable that it's not going to be tight unless you make it that way. I agree they're probably blaming the tie when the fault is with the shirt. And I'd guess 99% of shirts are off the rack. I assume, though, that most people are buying a reasonably fitted collar, they probably just don't like the feeling of a closed collar at all, even if they are buying a loose collar size.