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Are Neckties Going To Go The Way Of Bowties?

twclark3

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The casualization of everything is an encompassing long-term trend that has been going on since at least the mid-1960s, and the vanishing of ties is just one aspect of this. What comes after this could be anything,..
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smittycl

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Another ad.
 

Octobab

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Strange product plugs aside, I'm surprised nobody has brought up the kinds of societal associations ties bring up. The casualization of fashion being driven by democratizing/enlightenment ideas has been written about far better than I ever could, but suffice to say that ties (and formal items in general) are associated with exactly the opposite of how most people want to be perceived: stuck up, classist, and either rich and proud of it, or aspiring to be. I am not acusing anyone here of being those things, although there's plenty of all of that to go around on SF, but that's the subconscious, immediate perception by the larger public.

A tie is a deeply impractical object; uncomfortable, hindering, and descandant from purposes we have long moved past (nobody cares if someone sees their shirt buttons). There is never any reason to wear one, unless you are forced to (eg weddings, court, etc, wherein noone will think much of it because the situation demands it), or because you want to.

Neckwear as a whole category has almost entirely disapeared; unlike say, a blazer (jackets are a normal part of daily life), wearing neckwear of any kind is a loud, loud statement outside of certain situations. And the statement a tie makes is generally not a flattering one.
 

Octobab

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Also, to bounce off DW's post, IDK where y'all live to think that suit w/o tie is strange, because at least where I am there are plenty of suits and jacket/trouser combos to be seen, but 9/10 men or more are tie-less. And most of the time, they look great; IMO so long as it isn't collapsed, the V of an open shirt does a far better job of framing and drawing the eye to the face than a tie anyhow.
 

Phileas Fogg

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I’m not sure why the fetish to not wear a tie with a suit. Maybe it’s just a “fuck you” statement or something else, but it seems that the sport coat/blazer and odd slacks combo would be far better suited for this look.
Why are we trying to force a suit to evoke casual when we’ve already got plenty of casual options?
 

dieworkwear

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I’m not sure why the fetish to not wear a tie with a suit. Maybe it’s just a “fuck you” statement or something else, but it seems that the sport coat/blazer and odd slacks combo would be far better suited for this look.
Why are we trying to force a suit to evoke casual when we’ve already got plenty of casual options?
These debates are always at perfect equilibrium. People who don't wear ties don't want to be associated with people who are adamant that everyone should wear a tie. People who are adamant that everyone should wear a tie like to bitch and moan about people who don't wear a tie. Each side gets exactly what they want: to not be associated with the other group.

Anyways, there's a long tradition of men wearing suits without ties.

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DapperPhilly

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One thing that might, but probably won't, come next, given the innate conservatism of men's fashion, is the so-called untie, which isn't knotted around the neck, but secured with a clasp or clip. What's fun about this is that it opens up subtle jewelry fashion possibilities for men. Some ideas over at https://www.sola-designs.com/images/
I hope that never comes to be a fashion. Looks ridiculous to me.
 

Phileas Fogg

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These debates are always at perfect equilibrium. People who don't wear ties don't want to be associated with people who are adamant that everyone should wear a tie. People who are adamant that everyone should wear a tie like to bitch and moan about people who don't wear a tie. Each side gets exactly what they want: to not be associated with the other group.

Anyways, there's a long tradition of men wearing suits without ties.

View attachment 1644172View attachment 1644173
There’s also a long tradition of men scratching their balls in public but that doesn’t normalize the behavior.

setting aside that these aren’t real people but pictures, in both cases the suits are on the casual side. The modern trend of men wearing a dark, biz formal suit, like navy, with a white shirt and no tie seems silly.

Personally; I’m not a fan of the above.
 

DapperPhilly

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These debates are always at perfect equilibrium. People who don't wear ties don't want to be associated with people who are adamant that everyone should wear a tie. People who are adamant that everyone should wear a tie like to bitch and moan about people who don't wear a tie. Each side gets exactly what they want: to not be associated with the other group.

Anyways, there's a long tradition of men wearing suits without ties.

View attachment 1644172View attachment 1644174View attachment 1644173
I'm all about whether it looks good. Whether suit with or without tie or a Sport coat/blazer with or without tie. If it appeals to my eye then thats what counts....to me.
Eye of the beholder and all that.
 

DapperPhilly

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There’s also a long tradition of men scratching their balls in public but that doesn’t normalize the behavior.

setting aside that these aren’t real people but pictures, in both cases the suits are on the casual side. The modern trend of men wearing a dark, biz formal suit, like navy, with a white shirt and no tie seems silly.

Personally; I’m not a fan of the above.
I have a hard time comparing the public ball scratching or grab, to wearing a suit without tie.
 

dieworkwear

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setting aside that these aren’t real people but pictures, in both cases the suits are on the casual side.
The illustrations are from Apparel Arts, which was a trade publication that was a precursor to Esquire. The publication was given to clothiers to help them instruct men on how to dress, but it later became popular with some clothes-obsessed customers. For a time, AA illustrations used to be used here because people cared about how a certain section of society dressed from the 1930s through 80s. I feel like that period has long gone (meaning, that period on the forum).

So yes, they are illustrations and probably not even indicative of how people during those periods dressed. But they used to be a measure for how to dress because this forum was interested in a certain look.

It's true that most of those looks are casual. People who don't wear ties are trying to project a casual look. I was only responding to your question: "are people trying to make suits look casual now?" There are such things as men who wear casual suits and do it without a tie. It is a long tradition and not new.
 
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Phileas Fogg

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The illustrations are from Apparel Arts, which was a trade publication that was a precursor to Esquire. The publication was given to clothiers to help them instruct men on how to dress, but it later bcame popular with some clothes-obsessed customers. For a time, AA illustrations used to be used here because people cared about how a certain section of society dressed from the 1930s through 80s. I feel like that period has long gone (meaning, that period on the forum).

So yes, they are illustrations and probably not even indicative of how people during those periods dressed. But they used to be a measure for how to dress because this forum was interested in a certain look.

It's true that most of those looks are casual. People who don't wear ties are trying to project a casual look. I was only responding to your question: "are people trying to make suits look casual now?" There are such things as men who wear casual suits and do it without a tie. It is a long tradition and not new.
Yes; I’m familiar with the AA illustrations as they’ve been referred to here. Lighten up….just breaking your balls.

As for the suits without tie thing, I should have clarified and said business formal suits. I realize the term “suit” can come in a range of patterns and fabrics. I don’t have an issue with someone with a cotton or linen suit going without a tie. The pic above seems to be such a case.

But the current trend goes beyond this. I will offer as exhibit A, our generations dime store version of Cary Grant:

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Sorry, but there’s nothing attractive about that.
 

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