Are Neckties Going To Go The Way Of Bowties?

[FlyingMonkey]

Not sure how much Bukowski you've actually read, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's not a lot. I did wonder, though, when reading your assessment of his character, how many other writers (or other artists) also fell prey, from time to time at least, to alcoholism, and whether that colors your view of them as well. Also wondered which writers you find above moral reproach. And, I guess, why it is that you care. You wouldn't be looking for ones to worship, would you?

You're very certain for someone who has just got everything entirely wrong, let's just say that.

 

[ValidusLA]

This thread has gotten rather strident and off the subject of the lovely tie. Have just ordered 2 from Sam Hober because ties are awesome.

 

[smittycl]

This thread has gotten rather strident and off the subject of the lovely tie. Have just ordered 2 from Sam Hober because ties are awesome.

I just sent two big boxes of stuff to LuxeSwap but no ties. I went through them several times but couldn’t seem to part with any.

 

[TheChihuahua]

This thread has gotten rather strident and off the subject of the lovely tie. Have just ordered 2 from Sam Hober because ties are awesome.

I just grabbed a couple new ties to freshen up the selection. Why? Because ties are awesome.

the pandemic is going to end, and when it does people will want to look good again. The streetwear dudes are going to be hanging onto a lot of denim and expensive hoodies and sneakers

 

[ValidusLA]

Nothing wrong with crossing genres.

My other recent purchases:
Pair of titanium JMM sunglasses
2x pairs of Momotaro selvedge denim
MTO Vass derby boots (not arrived yet)
W Bill Linen Trousers

 

[emptym]

I like this dude's style. Natural, casual, tie free, and the focus is on the cut of the coats. Tailoring by Sarto Jun and Dalcuore


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But why does he look so sad?

how common is this story. Forcing kids to go yo church until confirmation, then letting them decide for themselves, and have them never return to church again. I would say the vast majority of my friends are in this same position.

I might start going to church again just so I can wear a necktie and feel comfortable about it!

I don't think ties are common in a lot congregations anymore. Some of my friends stopped going to church in college but then started again whey they had kids of their own.

I went to a Catholic boys school and am ostensibly Episcopalean by birth, but I was never baptized and certainly not confirmed.

Did go to mass through school up until I was off to college, saw most of my friends get confirmed, get some cash for completing it, and then leave the Church behind.

I have some friends who are still active, and a higher number who were married in the Church but don't attend.

I view my lack of baptism as a get out of jail card. It's a one time slate wipe!

Have you read Graham Greene's End of the Affair? Great book. Kind of the opposite of your story: the protagonist was baptized but not raised religious.

Had the opposite experience. My atheist father gave me a hard time when I started getting interested in religion as a teen, but I went to religious meetings anyway. Mostly went to a Filipino church and, later, Tibetan Buddhist temple. Then in college, took a class on Islamic law. Was interested in religion for both personal and academic reasons, but never really felt the spirit "move me."

A Christian friend recently gave me a small list of recommended readings. I'm still interested in reading about religion and have been meaning to buy those books. A couple of months ago, I attended Sunday Mass at a local Catholic church, but I always wish those events were more orientated like an academic talk, rather than a discussion about one's life.

When I was in graduate school, I was heavily skeptical of liberalism and very interested in communitarianism. Religon somewhat dovetails with those interests. But I would consider myself an agnostic. I'm not sure how anyone knows what lays beyond, but I would like to be religious for communitarian reasons.

The most religious "inspiring" experience I've had was attending mass in Moscow, where you can really get a sense of history and appreciate how the Church has shaped society. But always feel like I enter those experiences more interested in the social aspects of religion and never leave feeling actually spiritual.

I'd love to know what your friend recommended, if you wouldn't mind sharing. You've got some very good options near you for communitarian-minded churches: St. Columba, the Jesuit School of Theology, and Berkeley's Newman Ctr. Have you tried any of them? Feel free to pm if you'd prefer.

I was tripped up by the historicity of the “revealed” religions before I even knew what historicity was.

That's because you were raised evangelical, no? Catholic, Anglican, mainline Lutherans, etc. theology is pretty compatible with historical study. Xns in general (and Jews) should value history because of their/our belief that God reveals Godself in history.

For the record I an an atheist. Do you think anyone would notice if we (the CM crowd) co-opted church ceremonies as a way of commuting with like minded fashion enthusiasts? I mean we would have a weekly reason to dress in CM (including ties). Our SOs could wear fascinators (whatever they are). We could have a sermon on the rules of CM as a way of re-enforcing orthodoxy. The male choir members would wear three-piece suits. The pews would have copies of "Dressing the Man". I sincerely apologize if I have offended anyone with this post.

I've read about people starting atheist churches, to get at people's need for socialization for seeking meaning, etc.

Yeah and don’t forget I grew up in England where there’s no separation of church and state (they have Anglican bishops sitting in the House of Lords) and we said the Lords Prayer every day in school assembly. So that’s a few thousand times over the course of a young life and I still neither know nor care what it actually means!

How many times have I been in church when the vicar says “the lord be with you” and the crowd chants back “and with thy spirit”. WTF does that even mean?

And they wonder why attendance is down. When my niece got confirmed at age 11 I said to my Mam it seemed very young compared to my era and she said “they like to get the kids confirmed before they go to secondary school (Age 11-12 in England) because once the kids get there it seems it’s not cool to go to church”
“Oh I get it Mam, so they have to trick the kids into staying with it now eh? If what they’re ‘selling’ is so good and ‘sold’ in an attractive way, shouldn’t we be queueing up to get in instead of being tricked in at a tender age?”

(Sorry for the tangent folks!)

I'd say offering more than selling, but there certainly are those who sell.

 

[ValidusLA]

General opinion on the Church of England:

 

[dieworkwear]

I'd love to know what your friend recommended, if you wouldn't mind sharing.

Was recommended CS Lewis' Mere Christianity and Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning.

Do you have any book recommendations?

 

[emptym]

Those are great ones. I'm not sure if I've read Mere Christianity, but it's definitely a classic. I love his Screwtape Letters and the Great Divorce, as well as the Narnia books. Dostoyevski's Brother's Karamazov is probably my favorite. Here's a compilation of the chapters with perhaps the most religious content (theodicy, taking responsibility for all of mankind even creation, infinite love, etc): https://www.amazon.com/Grand-Inquisitor-chapters-Brothers-Karamazov/dp/0872202283

Jerome Miller's In the Throes of Wonder is great, iirc. More philosophy than a novel. Brian Swimme's The Universe is a Green Dragon is fun. A neat comic book that summarizes theology well (our natural infinite desire, the struggle for fulfillment, competition vs cooperation, selfless love, dark times, death and resurrection, service to others) is Trina Paulus's Hope for the Flowers. You might like Gene Yang's graphic novels, like Boxers and Saints. He's got a neat personal story too.

 

[Pax Britannica]

I wear ties and bow ties at home

 

[acapaca]

You're very certain for someone who has just got everything entirely wrong, let's just say that.

Then would you mind sharing some of the literary saints you worship?

 

[am55]

Then would you mind sharing some of the literary saints you worship?

 

[FlyingMonkey]

Then would you mind sharing some of the literary saints you worship?

There are threads for reading elsewhere on the forum. You'll find I've contributed fairly extensively to them in the past. You can check if you're genuinely interested in what I read. Generally speaking, if you want a genuine conversation with someone, I find it's best not to start off by making assumptions and accusations.

 

[stuffedsuperdud]

I would like to be religious for communitarian reasons.

In 2021 there's a religion for that and that religion is called CrossFit. Lots of self-flagellation, some odd dietary guidelines, and an annual pilgrimage to Madison Wisconsin, but you'll get a nice silhouette out of it, which I know you're all for. They used to worship a false prophet named Greg Glassman but nowadays the congregation is pretty agnostic and is primarily focused on the communitarian experience you seek.

They rarely wear CM and when they do, it's JAB, but they do wear ties, oddly enough, only they all say Rogue, Eleiko, or SBD on them and go around elbows, wrists, and knees instead of collar. So six ties per person.

 

[dieworkwear]

Then would you mind sharing some of the literary saints you worship?

Speaking for myself, my literary heroes include Alan Flusser, Bruce Boyer, Simon Crompton, and Mafoofan.